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Democracy versus dictatorship

Author
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#41 - 2013-06-26 07:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Democracy lets people like me vote or get into office ♥!

I think that's important~.

I like to go over campaign footage and pick the candidates with the most Quafe advertisements during their speeches.

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!

Vikarion
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-06-26 08:10:11 UTC
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg wrote:
Democracy lets people like me vote or get into office ♥!

I think that's important~.

I like to go over campaign footage and pick the candidates with the most Quafe advertisements during their speeches.


Quafe is also a registered Caldari Megacorporation.

Let's hope you don't like democracy too much.
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#43 - 2013-06-26 08:13:15 UTC
Vikarion wrote:

Quafe is also a registered Caldari Megacorporation.

Let's hope you don't like democracy too much.


A registered Caldari corporation. They don't hold a seat on the CEP.

And I'm like, totally cool with our missile loving friends and stuff, so like, nyeh ♥!

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!

Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-06-26 08:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurora Fatalis
The state isn't a corrupt dictatorship, because the term corruption is meaningless in a capitalist society. What it has, is a failed meritocracy in which someone as politically incompetent as Tibus Heth has managed to get to the top.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
1. Democracy is predicated on the theory that a million ordinary people will make better decisions than a hundred exceptional people. Nothing in science or history suggests this to be true.

Allow me to correct you. Democracy is predicated on the theory that exceptional people that have an obligation to the people they govern make decisions that benefit the population, and that their exceptionality allows them to out-argue the less exceptional, reaching the better decision. This need for a public argument also shines light on the decision-making process to the public, and if the argument is good it is more likely to convince people to vote for them again, iterating on the exceptionality of the senate members.

In addition, a dictatorship based on one exceptional person does have scientific backing of making worse decisions than a multitude of exceptional people. Everyone has weaknesses or flaws - it's part of the human condition. This is why we do cross-disciplinary collaborations and peer review in science - allowing everyone to benefit from others skill sets and statistically improve on a whole. This is also why the CEP as a middle-ground between dictatorship and democracy is a much better solution than having a single Executor.

Quote:
2. Democracys greatest vaunted quality, that it safeguards the people from abuses by their leaders, is manifestly false. Self-granted rights are routinely ignored 'for the good of the Federation'. Media outlets muzzled. Private citizens imprisoned or worse. There is no protection that a citizen can 'vote' for himself that his government will not strip away, in the dark, if it benefits them.
It is not "false" because its truth value is not binary. This safeguard is manifest in the mini-democracy within the CEP, which allowed them to oust people like Heth when he got out of hand. Democracy is not a 100% safeguard, but neither is the safeguard on my capsule ejection system, and I still would never part with it.

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#45 - 2013-06-26 09:13:10 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:
The state isn't a corrupt dictatorship, because the term corruption is meaningless in a capitalist society. What it has, is a failed meritocracy in which someone as politically incompetent as Tibus Heth has managed to get to the top.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
1. Democracy is predicated on the theory that a million ordinary people will make better decisions than a hundred exceptional people. Nothing in science or history suggests this to be true.

Allow me to correct you. Democracy is predicated on the theory that exceptional people that have an obligation to the people they govern make decisions that benefit the population, and that their exceptionality allows them to out-argue the less exceptional, reaching the better decision. This need for a public argument also shines light on the decision-making process to the public, and if the argument is good it is more likely to convince people to vote for them again, iterating on the exceptionality of the senate members.


It's a nice idea. Unfortunately, as demonstrated by Bubbles, here's why Gallentean democracy is dubious at best.

Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg wrote:
Democracy lets people like me vote or get into office ♥!

I think that's important~.

I like to go over campaign footage and pick the candidates with the most Quafe advertisements during their speeches.


I don't think any of us will argue that Bubbles is short a few brain cells and has had most of the empty space replaced with Quafe merchandise, but having spent some time living and operating in Sinq Laison, I tended to find that the majority of locals were no better when it came to politics. The Gallente system is not based upon wisdom and intelligent argument, because that would straight over the heads of most voters. It's a popularity contest. The one with the sexiest features, the best campaign slogan, the flashiest PR, wins.

I've watched the vaunted decision making process. The Senate more often than not behaves like children, engaging in slanging matches to score a cheap point rather than going for any meaningful debate. When a vote is opened to the masses, there's no grand logical arguments made; it's all marketing, fear-mongering and sex appeal.

At least the Amarrian system ensures that those who lead will have been trained to do so and have no worries about their popularity. I personally favour the Caldari method.
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#46 - 2013-06-26 09:59:15 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
The one with the sexiest features...


Oh, d'uh! I knew I forgot something important!

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2013-06-26 11:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
[...]Amarrian autocracy[...]

Captain Inhonores,

the term 'autocracy' as referring to a system of government in which a supreme power is concentrated in the hands of one person, whose decisions are subject to neither external legal restraints nor regularized mechanisms of popular control, is misapplied on the Empire and it's governmental structure. As you will notice, even the Emperor is bound by divine law and thus external legal restraints.

The one and only true autocrator is Lord God, praise be with Him.

Faithfully,
N. Mithra
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#48 - 2013-06-26 11:46:08 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
1. Democracy is predicated on the theory that a million ordinary people will make better decisions than a hundred exceptional people. Nothing in science or history suggests this to be true.

Allow me to correct you. Democracy is predicated on the theory that exceptional people that have an obligation to the people they govern make decisions that benefit the population, and that their exceptionality allows them to out-argue the less exceptional, reaching the better decision. This need for a public argument also shines light on the decision-making process to the public, and if the argument is good it is more likely to convince people to vote for them again, iterating on the exceptionality of the senate members.
.

THe issue with that is that just being the most competent does not often get you the most votes from the constituency; it's far more important to be very well liked and extremely popular, and due to the ignorance of the masses, that comes about through shallow reasons. Another flaw with your argument is the absurd notion that being exceptional in some way automatically makes you better at arguing; this is false. The fact of the matter is, competent leaders don't get votes if they aren't also good at working the crowd, while idiots who only care about the power can get voted into office on the basis of their oratory skills. What good is public discourse for the majority of the population who doesn't understand what exactly is being argued? You wouldn't have the masses vote on a new reactor design for your space ships because most of them don't know a damn thing about reactors, so why would you want them to have a say in law and government when most are similarly ignorant?

Again, the theory is widely disparate from the reality of the situation; while I argued earlier the MAIN issue with each government is the quality of its leaders, I should point out that democracy does not allow for much quality control since many of the people doing the choosing are in no way qualified to screen bad leaders out
Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-06-26 12:56:38 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:

THe issue with that is that just being the most competent does not often get you the most votes from the constituency; it's far more important to be very well liked and extremely popular, and due to the ignorance of the masses, that comes about through shallow reasons. Another flaw with your argument is the absurd notion that being exceptional in some way automatically makes you better at arguing; this is false. The fact of the matter is, competent leaders don't get votes if they aren't also good at working the crowd, while idiots who only care about the power can get voted into office on the basis of their oratory skills. What good is public discourse for the majority of the population who doesn't understand what exactly is being argued? You wouldn't have the masses vote on a new reactor design for your space ships because most of them don't know a damn thing about reactors, so why would you want them to have a say in law and government when most are similarly ignorant?

Again, the theory is widely disparate from the reality of the situation.

I highlighted what I found to be the problem.

From what I gather, in Sansha's Nation everyone is as competent as the most competent person hooked up to the network. This is, sadly, the only way I can imagine to produce a public enlightened enough to run a smooth democracy.

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#50 - 2013-06-26 13:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bataav
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Democracy gives everyone a voice...

Except for when it doesn't.

Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Democracy does not discriminate based on who is strong and weak.

History teaches us that Gallente Federation democracy will discriminate against those who it assumes are weak of mind and cannot be trusted with their democratic right to vote.

The Senate set a dangerous precedent by disenfranchising such a significant number of would-be voters in the last election.

With such a core principle of democracy undermined to this extent, what is to stop the next Federation government from declaring certain groups unfit for one reason or another?
Jarac Raasen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-06-26 14:39:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarac Raasen
The Federation is not perfect. We Intaki can tell you first-hand that this is not the case. Remember, it was the people who allowed a dictator to rule over us during the Gallente-Caldari War. And it was this that led to the expulsion of many of my brothers and sisters to form the Syndicate. Again, the Federation, our democracy, isn't perfect; it can and has been manipulated. Every government system has. The Caldari with Heth, for example. Yet even Heth is being hunted down like a dog for overextending his boundaries. He reached for the sun and got burned.

We of the Gallente Federation should be proud of our democracy; proud that people have a voice. The Caldari must look out for corruption in their midst. I do not agree with the system that they use: this... dictatorship of the corporations. I need to study more about their meritocratic aspects before I say anything about them. But I don't want to tell the Caldari how to be Caldari. Remember the last time the Federation tried to do that. We must be aware that are system of government is far from perfect, and we must always be vigilant of corruption and would-be dictators who can (and they have) rise to power. This means that they need to keep themselves informed and educated on what is going on politically.

Ultimately, it is up to the people to decide the direction of the Federation; good or bad.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-06-26 15:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Quote:
The Caldari must look out for corruption in their midst. I do not agree with the system that they use: this... dictatorship of the corporations.


A corporation isn't an individual, pilot, it's something built by the collective effort of many individuals. A corporation can no more be a dictator than a station or a supercapital can - dictatorship requires agency, which corporations don't have because they are not sentient entities in their own right.

In any case the point of a corporate meritocracy is that if you're good at your job, you get promoted. If you bring prosperity and success, then you are demonstrating that you can be entrusted with authority, you are demonstrating the capacity to use it wisely and for the greatest common good.

In theory. The greatest flaw in our system is not corruption - as has been indicated, the term is arguably meaningless in a corporate meritocracy - but with nepotism, the promotion of individuals because they are related to or in the personal favour of a powerful individual rather than because they are competent.

Heth's own ascension was a form of nepotism - the "powerful individual" in his case being in fact a syndicate of wealthy shareholders who reversed the meteoric plummet of Caldari Constructions' stock and installed him as CEO, and the surge of popular support he enjoyed after that footage of him piloting the MTAC at the armour forge riot. He didn't earn his position as part of the system, which is presumably why he felt so confident in seeking to dismantle it. He didn't climb the ladder, he was abruptly teleported to the top of it without having proven his head for heights.

There is no such thing as a flawless system. I suspect the Gallentean one may be more "fair" by the definition that everybody has equal input into who the leader is, but that the Caldari system is more "fair" in the sense that our leaders are not indebted to their campaign funders, their voters and their constitutents.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#53 - 2013-06-26 15:11:34 UTC
Jarac Raasen wrote:
The Federation is not perfect. We Intaki can tell you first-hand that this is not the case. Remember, it was the people who allowed a dictator to rule over us during the Gallente-Caldari War. And it was this that led to the expulsion of many of my brothers and sisters to form the Syndicate. Again, the Federation, our democracy, isn't perfect; it can and has been manipulated. Every government system has. The Caldari with Heth, for example. Yet even Heth is being hunted down like a dog for overextending his boundaries. He reached for the sun and got burned.

We of the Gallente Federation should be proud of our democracy; proud that people have a voice. The Caldari must look out for corruption in their midst. I do not agree with the system that they use: this... dictatorship of the corporations. I need to study more about their meritocratic aspects before I say anything about them. But I don't want to tell the Caldari how to be Caldari. Remember the last time the Federation tried to do that. We must be aware that are system of government is far from perfect, and we must always be vigilant of corruption and would-be dictators who can (and they have) rise to power. This means that they need to keep themselves informed and educated on what is going on politically.

Ultimately, it is up to the people to decide the direction of the Federation; good or bad.


I'm a bit confused by this term, "dictatorship of the corporations", sir. Our directors are cherished members of the community here, and are removed by the shareholders as soon as they are found incapable or unwilling to lead well. It isn't a perfect system, sir, certainly, but as you yourself said, nor is your own. Could one not as well call your system a dictatorship of the masses?

I look forward to the day when we no longer look our borders for dictators and despots, but instead look friends and partners. Perhaps then a robust peace between us can be found as well.
Jarac Raasen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-06-26 15:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarac Raasen
Scherezad wrote:
Jarac Raasen wrote:
The Federation is not perfect. We Intaki can tell you first-hand that this is not the case. Remember, it was the people who allowed a dictator to rule over us during the Gallente-Caldari War. And it was this that led to the expulsion of many of my brothers and sisters to form the Syndicate. Again, the Federation, our democracy, isn't perfect; it can and has been manipulated. Every government system has. The Caldari with Heth, for example. Yet even Heth is being hunted down like a dog for overextending his boundaries. He reached for the sun and got burned.

We of the Gallente Federation should be proud of our democracy; proud that people have a voice. The Caldari must look out for corruption in their midst. I do not agree with the system that they use: this... dictatorship of the corporations. I need to study more about their meritocratic aspects before I say anything about them. But I don't want to tell the Caldari how to be Caldari. Remember the last time the Federation tried to do that. We must be aware that are system of government is far from perfect, and we must always be vigilant of corruption and would-be dictators who can (and they have) rise to power. This means that they need to keep themselves informed and educated on what is going on politically.

Ultimately, it is up to the people to decide the direction of the Federation; good or bad.


I'm a bit confused by this term, "dictatorship of the corporations", sir. Our directors are cherished members of the community here, and are removed by the shareholders as soon as they are found incapable or unwilling to lead well. It isn't a perfect system, sir, certainly, but as you yourself said, nor is your own. Could one not as well call your system a dictatorship of the masses?

I look forward to the day when we no longer look our borders for dictators and despots, but instead look friends and partners. Perhaps then a robust peace between us can be found as well.


I apologize for the ignorance. I am still learning about Caldari politics and that is the way that some textbooks describe it (but what text book isn't biased, eh?). I'll take this as a learning experience. A "meritocratic society" is the best term I can use, I suppose.
Blaise Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-06-26 15:32:52 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Cyrus Alabel wrote:
And the only thing--the ONLY thing--that kept us from staying peaceful when we made our break was the Dragonaurs' (hmm, there's a familiar name) bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenor. Had that not happened, we may not be having this argument in the first place. (These days isolationism, frankly, seems like the better option, but that simply cannot be in today's world.)
This is false. The government of the Federation had already blockaded Caldari Prime for some time before the bombings. Given that Caldari Prime is not a very arable planet, this was not only a hostile act (blockades are generally acknowledged to be such), but also a deliberate attack on the Caldari civilian population's means of survival - food imports. The Gallente did not go for the Megacorps first, or the cobbled-together Caldari fleet, or even the deadspace colonies - they immediately went for threatening Caldari Prime with starvation. And, moreover, when the Caldari attempted to evacuate, they shot down or turned back every civilian transport until the Gallente fleet was diverted or destroyed by Caldari actions, because they did not want to lose the Caldari workforce and Caldari consumers. If you think that getting rid of Heth is going to make everything alright, you don't understand who the Caldari are.


As a Gallentean I am in favor of defense of my home, but the blockade of Caldari Prime was definitely an ill advised move by the Gallentean government against citizens that should not have been targeted, and this caused the real rift between the State and the Federation. Attacking citizens will always spark animosity. I don't believe the loss of Heth will improve relations, because of this. The Caldari had to take back their homeworld through force; negotian really went no where in that case. Now Galentean cizitens are trapped on Caldari Prime under the Damocles Sword that is the Caldari Fleet. This will lead to even more division.

Blaise Cadelanne

They bid me take my place among them, In the halls of Valhalla! Where the brave may live forever!”

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2013-06-26 18:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Blaise Cadelanne wrote:

As a Gallentean I am in favor of defense of my home, but the blockade of Caldari Prime was definitely an ill advised move by the Gallentean government against citizens that should not have been targeted, and this caused the real rift between the State and the Federation. Attacking citizens will always spark animosity. I don't believe the loss of Heth will improve relations, because of this. The Caldari had to take back their homeworld through force; negotian really went no where in that case. Now Galentean cizitens are trapped on Caldari Prime under the Damocles Sword that is the Caldari Fleet. This will lead to even more division.


I hate to bring up current events, but the Caldari Fleet no longer orbits Caldari Prime. There was a fight that ended as it always must do, should the Gallente bring their power to bear within their own territory, and the Shiigeru was downed, though at great loss of Federal life.

She impacted the planet, killing millions, and both sides were so shocked by the brinksmanship and foolish pride necessary to get into this position that a negotiated peace was reached, whereby the Caldari control just over half of Home and the Gallente the remainder.

Now here's the question... Where in the Maker's Name have you been hiding out, that you missed the Third Battle of Caldari Prime?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Blaise Cadelanne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-06-26 18:54:49 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I hate to bring up current events, but the Caldari Fleet no longer orbits Caldari Prime. There was a fight that ended as it always must do, should the Gallente bring their power to bear within their own territory, and the Shiigeru was downed, though at great loss of Federal life. She impacted the planet, killing millions, and both sides were so shocked by the brinksmanship and foolish pride necessary to get into this position that a negotiated peace was reached, whereby the Caldari control just over half of Home and the Gallente the remainder. Now here's the question... Where in the Maker's Name have you been hiding out, that you missed the Third Battle of Caldari Prime?


I have been involved in ground combat in the outer territories for various merc groups. Made my fortune as a soldier of war. Once I gained enough wealth to make the jump from soldier to capsuleer, I did. I haven't been in Gallentean space for over a year. My sincerest apologies to have out of date information. My point is even more valid in light of current events. This type of conflict shows that it took a devastating battle for any kind of agreement to be reached, and still the casualties mount on both sides. The rifts between the State and the Federation are far deeper than simple misunderstanding and differing outlooks. Many have perished and it will take many more compromises on both sides before any real negotiation can take place.

Blaise Cadelanne

They bid me take my place among them, In the halls of Valhalla! Where the brave may live forever!”

Vikarion
Doomheim
#58 - 2013-06-26 23:14:30 UTC
Blaise Cadelanne wrote:
As a Gallentean I am in favor of defense of my home, but the blockade of Caldari Prime was definitely an ill advised move by the Gallentean government against citizens that should not have been targeted, and this caused the real rift between the State and the Federation.


Let's be fair: you did not make the first comment, so I don't hold you responsible for his ignorance. And, second, if the leadership had had your attitude at the time, the Caldari Secession might have been entirely amicable, or at least as amicable as a secession can be.

Now, that said, understand that the secession was violent because of the ideology of the Federation at the time, not merely because of the Ultranationalists. The ideology of the Federation mandated a singular democratic entity, under whose umbrella all humanity in the cluster would exist. [Source: History of the Gallente Federation, Federation History, Gal-Net archives]. The Caldari secession struck at the core idea of the Federation: a universal, all-encompassing entity, under which all cultures united in a cosmopolitan ideal. The crime of the Caldari was not just that they left, but that they wanted to leave.

The other ideological crime of the Caldari, from the Gallente point of view, is that the Caldari have never been overly fond of democracy, whether they were in the Federation or not. The Federation has never drawn back from the position that democracy is the only correct political arrangement, and, even after the peace treaty with the State, continued attempts to instigate political change in the State, including one particularly noteworthy situation in which Fouritain attempted to send a freighter (under the cover of a humanitarian mission) with troops to occupy a Caldari station in Caldari Space which had been attacked by the Brothers of Freedom (a Caldari dissident group that many believe to have been funded and organized by the Federation). The occupation failed, by the way, when the freighter was destroyed by VETO, in transit.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-06-27 12:56:27 UTC
Cyrus Alabel wrote:

Normally I only drop in here to troll, because I find it amusing to provide snarky commentary, but honestly.

I don't blame you. It is a usual trait of gallenteans.

Cyrus Alabel wrote:

Why, in Rouvenor's name, would we want to destroy Caldari Prime? It is the home of the Caldari, and while our past has been bitter you simply cannot remove the fact that the Caldari were a founding member of the federation. No matter how we fight, be it in Black Rise or Luminaire, they had a hand in shaping our history, just as we did in theirs.

About destroying Caldari, ask you superiors.
As for being founding member of the federation, it was the greatest mistake of our ancestors, for which we are still paying with our blood.

Cyrus Alabel wrote:
But before you call me a hypocrite (and forgive my ignorance if I am wrong) the State Protectorate was a pet project of Heth's, mostly Provist lackeys, and given the CPD's recent decision about the man at the top, they are marked with the taint of the Dragonaurs as well.

The State is not your home. A jaijii has no idea about what we are and what we are fighting for. What you think as insult is in fact compliment, because Heth-haan is a hero, and Dragonaurs were standing against gallentean threat long before the war has started.

Cyrus Alabel wrote:

Spit on my rambling words if you must, but can you not at least be open to the possibility of compromise? Do Tierijev and the success Ishkukone mean nothing to you? Are you so rabidly anti-Gallente that you cannot even conceive of coexistence?

You mean those Ishukone, that went to enemy on knees, crying? This kind of success? They have ashamed and disgraced themselves! The only coexistence I will see possible, is when you President will come to our CEP on knees crying. This kind of coexistence I will accept.

Cyrus Alabel wrote:

As to the actual conversation of democracy: of course we have problems. Every system has problems. I'd bet even the EoM and Sansha have internal problems, nevermind the fact that they're one of the few enemies most of us agree on. yet I have a feeling your hatred of democracy has something to do with racism. I try to understand the Caldari. I do not tell them how to be Caldari. In turn you do not tell me how to be Gallente. Would it, then, kill you to try to understand us?

I am not interested in understanding you. And I don't care which of systems do gallente use.
All I tell is that this democracy is the worst possible of management system. If you want to use them - do it, go ahead. Not my problem.
But if you would like to promote it, to try to bring to us, telling that it is good and we should try your filth here, then, I'm sorry, your nose will have to taste Caldari boots.
And have a nice jam.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#60 - 2013-06-27 17:49:29 UTC
I'll be short, as I had plenty of such discussions back in my days as a Law & Economics undergraduate in Caille, amongst the marvels of our democracy which certainly include distinguished drinks and college entertainment, and also because most of you are spitting out horrors that would make most of the political scientists of New Eden shiver in disgust.

I also do not intend to go ahead and judge which political system is best since I know about Caldari political system at least as much as you Caldari seem to know about ours: So little.

So, here are my points:

1 - How do you expect us to buy your meritocracy if you won't buy our democracy? Are you really so naive, dishonest or stupid to think that, just like you won't buy that democracy ensures every voice is heard, the best decisions are taken and the most competent leaders are chosen, we are buying that your meritocracy ensures every citizen starts with the same opportunities to earn merit, is rewarded and advances politically exactly according to his capabilities and merits - that is the funniest of all premises, considering you are, by definition, corporativist - or even that those on top won't try to supress those on the bottom but with greater capabilities and potential, while they're still growing? Please. If your top-bosses aren't making sure they remain in power by limiting the younger enterpreneurs, they're either stupid or naive. Your corporations wouldn't be much of some brilliant corporations if they didn't lend a hand to those less capable of their own in detriment of a more capable stranger, would they?

2 - Democracy has worked so far. The Federation is prosper, militarily strong and in it's own way has brought good living standards to it's people. And fun, we have a lot of fun, that sure is progress. We judge that people are excellent to choose, but terrible to rule, so we have our representative system, thus, it is pointless to say that "the people makes all the decisions". Of course, we also have our direct participation mechanisms to ensure that this will of the people is also well reflected, though not imperative. We also have great food, by the way.

3 - Someone has spoken also that democractic elected leaders aren't the most capable administrators, because they rely on social skills to win elections. Well, I like to think the best politicians are those who can work people to get their best - just like the best Fleet Commander often isn't the best pilot. To choose a leader based on this capabilities on the matter, but not on the skills to lead, is to fall into a poor technocracy. That's why our best leaders have their technical advisors. We don't want any geeky mathematicians managing our enterprises, do we?

4 - Mrs. Kim, I often see you spilling so much hatred against the Federation around here on the IGS. It's tacit to me that hate is mosty an irrational feeling, so I'd like to ask you: Which Gallente boy has broken your heart?
I know what ails you, so I'd love to invite you to have some coffee, or watch a movie in Caille. Afterwards I would also like to see all that anti-democratic and anti-gallentean passion and fiery behaviour as I introduce in - I mean, to - you the Bastion of Liberty, a... Gallente monument I'm particularly proud of.