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Lets make war personal

First post
Author
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#1 - 2011-11-08 09:40:46 UTC
Given ccp cannot dedicate resources to policing the current dec mechanics I propose a simple solution. War is about confrontation between players and the current mechanics allow for a range of loopholes that create headaches for players and eat up resources.

When war is declared mutual kill rights should be extended to all players of said corporate entities for a fixed duration. This would make corp hopping to avoid or exploit the mechanic futile. While it is not a fix for dec shields it would certainly make war personal and stop simple mechanic exploitation.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-08 09:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
No.

Wars need a well defined purpose; something that makes both sides stand out to gain or lose something from the outcome.

My hope is that the current changes are leading to a total rework of war declaration mechanics.

Let me clarify: The current high sec war mechanics far too often end up in a situation where one side (likely the aggressor) stands to gain something and maybe lose a little while the other side (the defending part) stands to lose out and gain nothing. That is a poor driver for conflict.

If wars were more like contracts (you destroy ships worth XX of ISK of ours you get this faction tower but if we destroy ships worth XX of ISK of yours these freighters, that you have to set as collateral to accept the war, will be ours) I believe we could get more action going. Could even be further developed into official merc contracts.

Of course, the simple “war for no purpose” system that we currently have should not be removed as it does have a purpose sometimes.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-08 10:01:05 UTC
sitting at the jita 4-4 undock with remote sensor boosts and reps from npc corp alts must truly be the pinnacle of ~elitepvp~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-11-08 10:41:46 UTC
Or just grow some balls on your pod and leave highsec.
Plenty to kill in low, 0.0 or wormholes.

You dont even have to warn then with a dec, kill what you can catch.

Ow wait.... There less new players ignorant about game mechanics there!

Stick with canflipping?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-11-08 10:46:47 UTC
What happens if we don't want to leave hi-sec? What happens if we don't have any particular interest in low-sec or null-sec?

Hi-sec is here, it's not going away, and there are a lot of people who live in it. People who cannot get to grips with this fact have no business being in EVE, just like people who can't accept the possibility of ship-loss in low-sec or null-sec.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Bloody Wench
#6 - 2011-11-08 10:54:38 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
What happens if we don't want to leave hi-sec? What happens if we don't have any particular interest in low-sec or null-sec?

Hi-sec is here, it's not going away, and there are a lot of people who live in it. People who cannot get to grips with this fact have no business being in EVE, just like people who can't accept the possibility of ship-loss in low-sec or null-sec.



Although I've lived solo in a WH since January, I'm really a bit of a carebear, but what you just said is pretty sad.

You eventually get to a point where everything highsec offers is too easy.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-11-08 10:59:06 UTC
Bloody Wench wrote:
You eventually get to a point where everything highsec offers is too easy.

That is the problem. Too much for too little risk.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#8 - 2011-11-08 11:07:04 UTC
Elite high sec PVPer, checking in.
I've ganked 99 Exhumers. Do I get a medal when I hit 100?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-11-08 11:11:08 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Elite high sec PVPer, checking in.
I've ganked 99 Exhumers. Do I get a medal when I hit 100?
If no one will give you one, I will make a corporation just so that I can give you one.
Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-11-08 11:11:42 UTC
I will do my best to bring it less crude/smack. ( really )

The current game mechanics allows for people unwilling to play stationgames and gate-**** to escape that in highsec.

The willing one's will declare the dec mutual.

So, what is your problem?
You can still kill them, concord is to slow to beat a alpha tempest..

If you want to get real pvp, against people who expect it, go to low/0.0/wormhole.

Imho, please read that again .. Imho...
Now the new players have a better protection while they learn eve.
And nerf the highsec griefers a bit.

Name it as you want, chasing and killing new guys aint skill, its padding kb stats easy mode.

So, thats why the *man up* , and find something to shoot who will proberly be expecting you :)
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-11-08 11:18:10 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
That is the problem. Too much for too little risk.


I've heard this said a million times before, but I've never heard a convincing argument for why this is true.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-08 11:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I think wars should work like this:

* The aggressor sets a win condition (e.g. 10 ships killed) that must be met in a given time
* If the win condition is not met, the victim receives the isk that the aggressors fronted for the war
* If members from either side drop corp during the war, they can be attacked for 24 hours
* If you neutral rep someone at war, the other side gets kill rights on you for 24 hours
* If the win condition is met or lost, that should be recorded on aggressors war history information (new tab)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#13 - 2011-11-08 11:30:22 UTC
Spacing Cowboy wrote:
Or just grow some balls on your pod and leave highsec.
Plenty to kill in low, 0.0 or wormholes.

You dont even have to warn then with a dec, kill what you can catch.

So, let's say I, and a few friends, go to low or null. Will we be killing the rat spawn at the gate, the botter that logs off its Raven upon entry into the system, or the derp-derp cyno bait that makes us retreat with a collective sigh as sixteen supercarriers and a bridged support fleet are dropped onto our four cruiser hulls? Or is low/null pvp like a poker tournament, where the only way to play is to buy in with a super blob of your own? I know you can find decent fights there, sometimes, but damn me if I don't think that mining ice would make for a more enjoyable time than looking for them.

Oh, and I didn't mention wormholes, because wormholes are pretty neat. I've lived in them, on and off, since the day they were out. However, CCP needs to expand a bit on wormhole gameplay to make..."meeting" people there slightly less of a chore.

Bloody Wench wrote:
You eventually get to a point where everything highsec offers is too easy.

When I started playing this game, I went straight into null. A few years ago, I gave up on it entirely. It became monotonous, and boring. The pvp was rarely exciting, and being in fleets of more than 20 felt like I was but one in a column of soldiers marching in a 19th century army.

Meanwhile, in high-sec, I rarely, if ever, see myself in double-digit fleets, routinely fight outnumbered, and have to account for the fact that it's never just the people with stars by their names who are hostile. Maybe high-sec is too easy, but only if your idea of high-sec is a place you go to so you can grind up enough cash for the next dozen Maelstroms you're going to lose.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Stahlregen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-11-08 11:34:30 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
That is the problem. Too much for too little risk.


I've heard this said a million times before, but I've never heard a convincing argument for why this is true.


Argument 1: As an individual and as a corp it's entirely possible to avoid a war declaration by simply leaving either your alliance or corp. Therefore eliminating the risk of actually having to engage in PVP whatsoever.

Argument 2: Considering my first argument, If people so wish to avoid conflict then the only things shooting them on a regular basis in high sec is NPCs. Not even hard NPCs but literally the easiest NPCs in the game.

Argument 3: You can auto-pilot your faction battleship/freighter anywhere in high-sec with impunity due to lack of bubbles and assuming you're avoiding war decs.

Argument 4: Concord. COME ON! Even when you do get killed the goddamn NPCs go out and get revenge for your own incompetent, scrublord ass.


These are all points straight off the top of my head, If you can't see how this all makes high sec incredibly safe and completely skews the risk v reward then there's probably not much point arguing with you because you're beyond reason but hey, at least I gave it a shot.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-08 12:00:44 UTC
High-sec aggression mechanics are incredibly broken as it is. Wardecs are always in favor of the aggressor, especially with entities that are prepared with neutral RR alts and other nonsense.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-11-08 12:13:39 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
not much point arguing with you because you're beyond reason but hey, at least I gave it a shot.


This is from the same guy who emorages and bans people from his YouTube channel every time someone (including people from his own alliance) criticises his pretentious videos. Lol

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Russell Casey
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-11-08 12:24:21 UTC
Spacing Cowboy wrote:


Stick with canflipping?


Till CCP fixes null PvP so you can catch stuff without a hotdrop, a camp or going AFK cloaked in one spot for weeks, hell yeah. When you think about it, baiting someone with a can isn't much different than baiting them with a cyno BS.

Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-11-08 12:30:58 UTC
In response , cant quote due cellphone use:

Check my relative horrible KB, im having a good time while also playing small gang and big ass slugfest blob, with a nice blackops hotdrop in the mix.

And also some losses :)

Having good pvp fun, is a case of finding a good group of people, you might have been unlucky so far.
In truth, also, highsec is just not for me, its a shopping center, so im also looking with -pink- glasses at, in my eyes, the fail of highsec wardecs and the lack of fun in it
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#19 - 2011-11-08 12:40:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Given ccp cannot dedicate resources to policing the current dec mechanics I propose a simple solution. War is about confrontation between players and the current mechanics allow for a range of loopholes that create headaches for players and eat up resources.

When war is declared mutual kill rights should be extended to all players of said corporate entities for a fixed duration. This would make corp hopping to avoid or exploit the mechanic futile. While it is not a fix for dec shields it would certainly make war personal and stop simple mechanic exploitation.



I read this as "waaa I wanna bring PvP to players in hi sec even when they try to avoid it and the mechanics don't let me because CCP realizes that not everyone wants to fight all the time CCP make them have to fight me I want some industrial ship kill mails an Concord keeps blowing me up waaaa!"

You want to force surprise sex on people the game lets you do this, but you have to be patient, crafty, or both. But you want to change the rules to suit the way you and only you play. To that I say bugger off.
Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-08 12:48:57 UTC
Russell Casey wrote:
Spacing Cowboy wrote:


Stick with canflipping?


Till CCP fixes null PvP so you can catch stuff without a hotdrop, a camp or going AFK cloaked in one spot for weeks, hell yeah. When you think about it, baiting someone with a can isn't much different than baiting them with a cyno BS.



But you forget to mention, that flipping a guy in a retriever aint quite the same as getting bbq'ed in a cyno bate.

The retriever guy is a new guy, the guy who gets a new ******* torn in the cyno bate picked the wrong target to mess with.
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