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The Problem With Armor Tanking Cruisers/Battlecruisers (Not Just Gallente)
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Sigras
Conglomo
#1 - 2011-11-08 09:51:12 UTC
These problems are not unique to gallente, but blasters do exacerbate them quite a bit.

Note - I do not have a fix I just recognize the problems, im hoping someone else comes up with a fix.

PvP "needs":

Low Slot:
3x damage mods

Mid Slot:
1x Propulsion Mod
1x Warp disruptor/scrambler

PvP "wants":

Low Slot:
2x Tracking Enhancer
1x Overdrive injector
1x Nanofiber

Mid Slot:
1x Web
1x Cap Booster (maybe?)


This, coupled with the fact that the damage control/power diagnostic system effect shields from low slots basically means that if I have a ship with a 8/4/6 slot layout, its still in my best interest to shield tank it which many people do *cough* hurricane *cough*

Unless a ship has an armor bonus, i bet you would never tank a regular damage boat with an even slot layout as armor, its always going to favor shields because even with an 8/5/5 layout you can fit all of the PvP "Needs" in your mid slots and still have a 4 slot tank (including damage control) and it gives you way more ability to fit the PvP "wants" in your lows

This is usually passed off as a gallente problem because controlling range and therefore speed is such a big deal to them, but its really a problem across the board. Basically anything with 4 mid slots can be shield tanked, but the same cannot be said for armor . . .

I guess Amarr dont really have this problem because they have really good damage projection which reduces the need for the tracking enhancers and speed mods.

Anyone have a solution or a different perspective?
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#2 - 2011-11-08 09:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Why do I need damage mods in my lows when I can put webs/tps in my mids? Those also make me do more damage, and help the rest of my fleet too. Or wait, I can also use ewar of various varieties to make my enemies have issues hurting me at all!

Armor tanks are better for fleets because they can field more utility than shield tanks can, even if its at the cost of pure gank.

Only problem really is range >.>

edit: typo

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Kazacy
BACKFIRE Squad
#3 - 2011-11-08 10:00:39 UTC
Seems do you really want a perfect combination of speed, dps, damage projection and tank. Well there isn't for any race in eve and this is good.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-08 10:03:03 UTC
This is why ships like the Ferox have such lost potential.
Imagine if it had a damage bonus, could fit 8 neutron blasters, a DCU and 3 damage mods, and a full shield tank.
So much awesome. It'd be like a Drake, except more face-melting.

However, the niche role of 'PVP' is left to Minmatar.
Sigras
Conglomo
#5 - 2011-11-08 10:25:46 UTC
Kazacy wrote:
Seems do you really want a perfect combination of speed, dps, damage projection and tank. Well there isn't for any race in eve and this is good.

you mean like the minmatar?

Case:
The Hurricane, fantastic speed, good DPS, great damage projection with barrage, 40,000 EHP tank . . .
The Vagabond
The Cynabal
Need I go on?

Tallian Saotome wrote:
Why do I need damage mods in my lows when I can put webs/tps in my mids? Those also make me do more damage, and help the rest of my fleet too. Or wait, I can also use ewar of various varieties to make my enemies have issues hurting me at all!

Armor tanks are better for fleets because they can field more utility than shield tanks can, even if its at the cost of pure gank.

Only problem really is range >.>

edit: typo


Webs/tps have significantly diminishing returns past the first 2 because your cruiser (which this thread is about) is usually doing full damage with the target webbed and painted. Also, armor tanking ships do tend to have a problem with getting into range to apply that web.

I agree that armor tanking is better for large gangs, but not for the same reason. Larger groups are themselves immobile and usually have dedicated tackle, so the mobility of an individual ship is less important, however you still rarely see blaster ships because they dont have the range . . . hmmm maybe this is a blasters only problem . . .
LacLongQuan
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-08 10:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: LacLongQuan
Sigras wrote:

Webs/tps have significantly diminishing returns past the first 2 because your cruiser (which this thread is about) is usually doing full damage with the target webbed and painted. Also, armor tanking ships do tend to have a problem with getting into range to apply that web.

I agree that armor tanking is better for large gangs, but not for the same reason. Larger groups are themselves immobile and usually have dedicated tackle, so the mobility of an individual ship is less important, however you still rarely see blaster ships because they dont have the range . . . hmmm maybe this is a blasters only problem . . .

I think you already point it out, fly in small group, shield it is; large group armor is the way to go.

everything has its advantages and disadvantages, try to adapt it

if you fly armor, put ewar in your mid so your opponents have to get close to you to apply dps.
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#7 - 2011-11-08 10:47:53 UTC
I see so following this logic caldari must be the kings of pvp.


hmm wait for it .....

Really ?

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#8 - 2011-11-08 11:09:11 UTC
Niko Takahashi wrote:
I see so following this logic caldari must be the kings of pvp.


hmm wait for it .....

Really ?


See drake, falcon. Caldari hold their own(even if its just those 2 ships).

All factions have ships that hold their own being fit the way they appear they should be. On the whole tho Minnie are small/mid pvp, with caldari and amarr holding up large scale pvp(caldari shield boats and amarr armor boats, dependign on fleet comp).

Minmatar do almost as well in large scale as the factions that specialize there tho, so its better to just have everyone fly minnie and base your fleet comps on that.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.