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Skill-Time for Plex

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Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#141 - 2013-06-26 09:01:40 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?

NO, its because there are many new players that dont understand the game and want instant gratification as they used to get in other games.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#142 - 2013-06-26 09:29:04 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?


The issue is that the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea tends to be the kind of person who thinks that they're the first to have thought of it and that they shouldn't bother to look to see if has already been raised and shown to be terrible.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#143 - 2013-06-26 09:31:59 UTC
See also:

-Removing L4 missions from hi-sec
-Adding a PvE only EVE server
-Making PvE occur in locked instances
-PvP flags
-A hundred other incredibly bad ideas that boil down to 'I should get free stuff and more skills and then claim that this is a good thing because it will "benefit new players"'

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#144 - 2013-06-26 09:38:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?


The issue is that the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea tends to be the kind of person who thinks that they're the first to have thought of it and that they shouldn't bother to look to see if has already been raised and shown to be terrible.


Or mayby the arguments that have been used to show the idea would be terrible are terrible and the issue still exists.

And saying that the new players don't get the game is also horrible. If no one gets the game then no one will play and the game will slowly die or the same old bitter players will stay in the game and it will eventulay come utterly booring. Getting new players into the game is essential to any game, even for eve-online.

For a new player waiting for months to get into a specialized ship with tech 2 fittings is bad and no I'm not saying it should be instants over the night type of thing but the waiting time is just too long and that discourages people to continue playing the game and thats just the skills side of the game.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#145 - 2013-06-26 09:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
The fact that many people have suggested something does not mean their suggestion is the solution to a problem that exists, nor even proof that any problem exists at all.

If one hundred thousand mexicans declared that the USA should use the peso as its currency instead because they only have pesos and don't have dollars, would you be willing to say it's a good idea for us to switch? With the sort of logic you're applying, clearly one hundred thousand people all saying the same thing means that there must be a problem with the USA sticking to the dollar, right?

A large group of people saying the same thing only proves that a large group of people all want something at the same time.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#146 - 2013-06-26 09:59:19 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?


The issue is that the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea tends to be the kind of person who thinks that they're the first to have thought of it and that they shouldn't bother to look to see if has already been raised and shown to be terrible.



Theoretically this is possible, but the weird thing is no, this never happens.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#147 - 2013-06-26 10:01:11 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?


The issue is that the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea tends to be the kind of person who thinks that they're the first to have thought of it and that they shouldn't bother to look to see if has already been raised and shown to be terrible.


Or mayby the arguments that have been used to show the idea would be terrible are terrible and the issue still exists.

And saying that the new players don't get the game is also horrible. If no one gets the game then no one will play and the game will slowly die or the same old bitter players will stay in the game and it will eventulay come utterly booring. Getting new players into the game is essential to any game, even for eve-online.

For a new player waiting for months to get into a specialized ship with tech 2 fittings is bad and no I'm not saying it should be instants over the night type of thing but the waiting time is just too long and that discourages people to continue playing the game and thats just the skills side of the game.


How long would be just right? Which ship do you have in mind?

The last guy I had this argument with claimed that it took 3 years to be "competitive" and then spent 20 pages refusing to admit that he meant getting into a Black Ops with all skills to V.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#148 - 2013-06-26 10:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
Malcanis wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
...

Or mayby the arguments that have been used to show the idea would be terrible are terrible and the issue still exists.

And saying that the new players don't get the game is also horrible. If no one gets the game then no one will play and the game will slowly die or the same old bitter players will stay in the game and it will eventulay come utterly booring. Getting new players into the game is essential to any game, even for eve-online.

For a new player waiting for months to get into a specialized ship with tech 2 fittings is bad and no I'm not saying it should be instants over the night type of thing but the waiting time is just too long and that discourages people to continue playing the game and thats just the skills side of the game.


How long would be just right? Which ship do you have in mind?

The last guy I had this argument with claimed that it took 3 years to be "competitive" and then spent 20 pages refusing to admit that he meant getting into a Black Ops with all skills to V.


Well now that you mention that takes tons of time but I was more thinking smaller ships lets say heavy assault ships. And no I do not have EvE mon up so I can't check the actual numbers for you and no I do not say people need to have skills at V, III is enough to do almost everything.

Also when a new player starts the game he wont know anything about any skill plans like we do. He will train something what might be useless and that also consumes time alot.

Then to how fast... not sure to be honest. I'm bad at balancing stuff but faster than it is at this moment.

Edit:

Mayby if you could train a second skill at the same time as the main skill is training with a cost of a plex or something like that. Or just drop the skill multpliers by one on all skills.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#149 - 2013-06-26 10:28:41 UTC
With this (non existent) issue coming up like 1000 times i was refering to 'started threads'.
Reasons why its 'NO' will be found within those threads.

My true stories
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#150 - 2013-06-26 10:36:20 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
...

Or mayby the arguments that have been used to show the idea would be terrible are terrible and the issue still exists.

And saying that the new players don't get the game is also horrible. If no one gets the game then no one will play and the game will slowly die or the same old bitter players will stay in the game and it will eventulay come utterly booring. Getting new players into the game is essential to any game, even for eve-online.

For a new player waiting for months to get into a specialized ship with tech 2 fittings is bad and no I'm not saying it should be instants over the night type of thing but the waiting time is just too long and that discourages people to continue playing the game and thats just the skills side of the game.


How long would be just right? Which ship do you have in mind?

The last guy I had this argument with claimed that it took 3 years to be "competitive" and then spent 20 pages refusing to admit that he meant getting into a Black Ops with all skills to V.


Well now that you mention that takes tons of time but I was more thinking smaller ships lets say heavy assault ships. And no I do not have EvE mon up so I can't check the actual numbers for you and no I do not say people need to have skills at V, III is enough to do almost everything.

Also when a new player starts the game he wont know anything about any skill plans like we do. He will train something what might be useless and that also consumes time alot.

Then to how fast... not sure to be honest. I'm bad at balancing stuff but faster than it is at this moment.

Edit:

Mayby if you could train a second skill at the same time as the main skill is training with a cost of a plex or something like that.



You don't need a specialist T2 combat ship to be competitive. T1 cruisers with maybe two weeks of support skills will be much better for a new player than a HAC, what with the whole 'not breaking the bank when you die in a fire' thing. A couple of weeks will put you into a T1 gunned, T2 tanked cruiser, and I'd like you to tell me why that is somehow a problem.

Hell, haven't you ever heard goonswarm or test newbie recruitment spiel? Ten minutes of training, a free frigate and they'll love you.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#151 - 2013-06-26 10:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
Danika Princip wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:

...



You don't need a specialist T2 combat ship to be competitive. T1 cruisers with maybe two weeks of support skills will be much better for a new player than a HAC, what with the whole 'not breaking the bank when you die in a fire' thing. A couple of weeks will put you into a T1 gunned, T2 tanked cruiser, and I'd like you to tell me why that is somehow a problem.

Hell, haven't you ever heard goonswarm or test newbie recruitment spiel? Ten minutes of training, a free frigate and they'll love you.


The new 13yo baby nerd most likely don't even know what goonswarm is or for that matter any one else who tries to get into the game without help. Twisted

And when we know that in numbers the tech 1 ships can be fun and all that the new players don' t know that and usualy they want to spacialize also right away to something.

I picked my first ship (brutix) by the looks when I started the game and also took quit abit of time to get into it and I tried to shield tank it not even knowing how tank worked. Turned out to be a horrible idea cause I did mainly PVE in amarr space. Anyhow what I'm trying to say is that for some people starting this game might have same or equal horrible ideas that I had and then it realy is time consuming.

edit
oh I had lazors also on the brutix Twisted

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#152 - 2013-06-26 11:23:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


The last guy I had this argument with claimed that it took 3 years to be "competitive" and then spent 20 pages refusing to admit that he meant getting into a Black Ops with all skills to V.



Damn, I am coming up on 5 years of playing & I can not even sit in a Black Ops BS, much less have skills to fly it to level 5. Someone tell me what I am doing wrong.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#153 - 2013-06-26 11:48:25 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:


Also when a new player starts the game he wont know anything about any skill plans like we do. He will train something what might be useless and that also consumes time alot...


In which case, advising him to spend extra money for even more skillpoints he won't know how to properly apply seems rather cruel.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2013-06-26 11:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?

NO, its because there are many new players that dont understand the game and want instant gratification as they used to get in other games.


I'm gamer since over 30 years, I understand more about games like you ever will, trust me that

when the game started the skill time was there to keep the game motivated and stay longer

the more the game lasts the bigger problem and hurdle this becomes for new entrys

thats why this needs some adjustemnt

like I mentioned adding a possibility to buy 1 month of skillpoints with plex every 6 month in addition to the normal skillplan would help a lot and would not damage the mechanic at all

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
#155 - 2013-06-26 12:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Anna Djan
Harry Forever wrote:


I'm gamer since over 30 years, I understand more about games like you ever will, trust me that



The **** measuring has begun....


It would help me get friends to play I suppose, but it's not a good idea overall.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#156 - 2013-06-26 12:39:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:


Also when a new player starts the game he wont know anything about any skill plans like we do. He will train something what might be useless and that also consumes time alot...


In which case, advising him to spend extra money for even more skillpoints he won't know how to properly apply seems rather cruel.


Well it might be abit cruel yes but the option is there and it might be that after few months of senseless training he has found a friend that tells him what to train and then he can catch up faster and he would need to wait months again to get to the point where he wanted to be.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2013-06-26 13:34:24 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?

NO, its because there are many new players that dont understand the game and want instant gratification as they used to get in other games.


I'm gamer since over 30 years, I understand more about games like you ever will, trust me that

when the game started the skill time was there to keep the game motivated and stay longer

the more the game lasts the bigger problem and hurdle this becomes for new entrys

thats why this needs some adjustemnt

like I mentioned adding a possibility to buy 1 month of skillpoints with plex every 6 month in addition to the normal skillplan would help a lot and would not damage the mechanic at all

Not true. If you have been gaming for 30 years you probably have played EQ, WoW type leveling games. In those games it takes a significant amount of time to level and gear out a max class (example enchanter). EvE is similiar in that it takes a significant amount of time to train a specialized class (example: ECM specialist in Falcon).

Ironically in EvE its quicker than in EQ.

What you are not getting is EvE like those games is full of classes (logi, dps frig, tackler inty, cap pilot- theyre just not as clearly defined and they have lots of crossover skills that wont need to be retrained for a new class unlike other games.

Its no harder to become an expert in EvE than those other games and while youre becoming specialized in one ship / role youre fullfilling requirements for others (engineering is needed for all ship roles / classes )


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2013-06-26 13:55:48 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
StoneCold wrote:
Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It´s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.


when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?

NO, its because there are many new players that dont understand the game and want instant gratification as they used to get in other games.


I'm gamer since over 30 years, I understand more about games like you ever will, trust me that

when the game started the skill time was there to keep the game motivated and stay longer

the more the game lasts the bigger problem and hurdle this becomes for new entrys

thats why this needs some adjustemnt

like I mentioned adding a possibility to buy 1 month of skillpoints with plex every 6 month in addition to the normal skillplan would help a lot and would not damage the mechanic at all

Not true. If you have been gaming for 30 years you probably have played EQ, WoW type leveling games. In those games it takes a significant amount of time to level and gear out a max class (example enchanter). EvE is similiar in that it takes a significant amount of time to train a specialized class (example: ECM specialist in Falcon).

Ironically in EvE its quicker than in EQ.

What you are not getting is EvE like those games is full of classes (logi, dps frig, tackler inty, cap pilot- theyre just not as clearly defined and they have lots of crossover skills that wont need to be retrained for a new class unlike other games.

Its no harder to become an expert in EvE than those other games and while youre becoming specialized in one ship / role youre fullfilling requirements for others (engineering is needed for all ship roles / classes )




I do not take other games as measurment, as each game has its own logic, in eve more skilltime is needed for the early player, therefore the possibility to purchase more skilltime as an option and again limited maybe between 1-3 month of SP per year would be a good addition to the game, and would not harm anybody

I agree to everybody that the possibility to purchase unlimited skilltime might not be a good idea

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2013-06-26 14:12:02 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:


I do not take other games as measurment, as each game has its own logic, in eve more skilltime is needed for the early player, therefore the possibility to purchase more skilltime as an option and again limited maybe between 1-3 month of SP per year would be a good addition to the game, and would not harm anybody

I agree to everybody that the possibility to purchase unlimited skilltime might not be a good idea

You missed the point. Its no harder to train into most specialized ship roles than it was 10 years ago. Its easier now in most cases than it was in the past. There are a few exceptions (black ops, cap ships) but generally theres no need to worry about being 10 years behind because youre not unless you want to be good at everything.

Just like you cant expect to play WoW and be max level max geared in all classes / races quickly you cant expect that in EvE either.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#160 - 2013-06-26 14:18:34 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


I do not take other games as measurment, as each game has its own logic, in eve more skilltime is needed for the early player, therefore the possibility to purchase more skilltime as an option and again limited maybe between 1-3 month of SP per year would be a good addition to the game, and would not harm anybody

I agree to everybody that the possibility to purchase unlimited skilltime might not be a good idea

You missed the point. Its no harder to train into most specialized ship roles than it was 10 years ago. Its easier now in most cases than it was in the past. There are a few exceptions (black ops, cap ships) but generally theres no need to worry about being 10 years behind because youre not unless you want to be good at everything.

Just like you cant expect to play WoW and be max level max geared in all classes / races quickly you cant expect that in EvE either.


my suggestion should just be used as additional boost and motivation ever few month, don't worry, everybody will be fine with that

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm