Intergalactic Summit

Quafe is also a registered Caldari Megacorporation.

Let's hope you don't like democracy too much.

The state isn't a corrupt dictatorship, because the term corruption is meaningless in a capitalist society. What it has, is a failed meritocracy in which someone as politically incompetent as Tibus Heth has managed to get to the top.


Allow me to correct you. Democracy is predicated on the theory that exceptional people that have an obligation to the people they govern make decisions that benefit the population, and that their exceptionality allows them to out-argue the less exceptional, reaching the better decision. This need for a public argument also shines light on the decision-making process to the public, and if the argument is good it is more likely to convince people to vote for them again, iterating on the exceptionality of the senate members.

In addition, a dictatorship based on one exceptional person does have scientific backing of making worse decisions than a multitude of exceptional people. Everyone has weaknesses or flaws - it's part of the human condition. This is why we do cross-disciplinary collaborations and peer review in science - allowing everyone to benefit from others skill sets and statistically improve on a whole. This is also why the CEP as a middle-ground between dictatorship and democracy is a much better solution than having a single Executor.

It is not "false" because its truth value is not binary. This safeguard is manifest in the mini-democracy within the CEP, which allowed them to oust people like Heth when he got out of hand. Democracy is not a 100% safeguard, but neither is the safeguard on my capsule ejection system, and I still would never part with it.

Oh, d'uh! I knew I forgot something important!

THe issue with that is that just being the most competent does not often get you the most votes from the constituency; it's far more important to be very well liked and extremely popular, and due to the ignorance of the masses, that comes about through shallow reasons. Another flaw with your argument is the absurd notion that being exceptional in some way automatically makes you better at arguing; this is false. The fact of the matter is, competent leaders don't get votes if they aren't also good at working the crowd, while idiots who only care about the power can get voted into office on the basis of their oratory skills. What good is public discourse for the majority of the population who doesn't understand what exactly is being argued? You wouldn't have the masses vote on a new reactor design for your space ships because most of them don't know a damn thing about reactors, so why would you want them to have a say in law and government when most are similarly ignorant?

Again, the theory is widely disparate from the reality of the situation; while I argued earlier the MAIN issue with each government is the quality of its leaders, I should point out that democracy does not allow for much quality control since many of the people doing the choosing are in no way qualified to screen bad leaders out

Except for when it doesn't.


History teaches us that Gallente Federation democracy will discriminate against those who it assumes are weak of mind and cannot be trusted with their democratic right to vote.

The Senate set a dangerous precedent by disenfranchising such a significant number of would-be voters in the last election.

With such a core principle of democracy undermined to this extent, what is to stop the next Federation government from declaring certain groups unfit for one reason or another?

A corporation isn't an individual, pilot, it's something built by the collective effort of many individuals. A corporation can no more be a dictator than a station or a supercapital can - dictatorship requires agency, which corporations don't have because they are not sentient entities in their own right.

In any case the point of a corporate meritocracy is that if you're good at your job, you get promoted. If you bring prosperity and success, then you are demonstrating that you can be entrusted with authority, you are demonstrating the capacity to use it wisely and for the greatest common good.

In theory. The greatest flaw in our system is not corruption - as has been indicated, the term is arguably meaningless in a corporate meritocracy - but with nepotism, the promotion of individuals because they are related to or in the personal favour of a powerful individual rather than because they are competent.

Heth's own ascension was a form of nepotism - the "powerful individual" in his case being in fact a syndicate of wealthy shareholders who reversed the meteoric plummet of Caldari Constructions' stock and installed him as CEO, and the surge of popular support he enjoyed after that footage of him piloting the MTAC at the armour forge riot. He didn't earn his position as part of the system, which is presumably why he felt so confident in seeking to dismantle it. He didn't climb the ladder, he was abruptly teleported to the top of it without having proven his head for heights.

There is no such thing as a flawless system. I suspect the Gallentean one may be more "fair" by the definition that everybody has equal input into who the leader is, but that the Caldari system is more "fair" in the sense that our leaders are not indebted to their campaign funders, their voters and their constitutents.

I apologize for the ignorance. I am still learning about Caldari politics and that is the way that some textbooks describe it (but what text book isn't biased, eh?). I'll take this as a learning experience. A "meritocratic society" is the best term I can use, I suppose.

I hate to bring up current events, but the Caldari Fleet no longer orbits Caldari Prime. There was a fight that ended as it always must do, should the Gallente bring their power to bear within their own territory, and the Shiigeru was downed, though at great loss of Federal life.

She impacted the planet, killing millions, and both sides were so shocked by the brinksmanship and foolish pride necessary to get into this position that a negotiated peace was reached, whereby the Caldari control just over half of Home and the Gallente the remainder.

Now here's the question... Where in the Maker's Name have you been hiding out, that you missed the Third Battle of Caldari Prime?

Let's be fair: you did not make the first comment, so I don't hold you responsible for his ignorance. And, second, if the leadership had had your attitude at the time, the Caldari Secession might have been entirely amicable, or at least as amicable as a secession can be.

Now, that said, understand that the secession was violent because of the ideology of the Federation at the time, not merely because of the Ultranationalists. The ideology of the Federation mandated a singular democratic entity, under whose umbrella all humanity in the cluster would exist. [Source: History of the Gallente Federation, Federation History, Gal-Net archives]. The Caldari secession struck at the core idea of the Federation: a universal, all-encompassing entity, under which all cultures united in a cosmopolitan ideal. The crime of the Caldari was not just that they left, but that they wanted to leave.

The other ideological crime of the Caldari, from the Gallente point of view, is that the Caldari have never been overly fond of democracy, whether they were in the Federation or not. The Federation has never drawn back from the position that democracy is the only correct political arrangement, and, even after the peace treaty with the State, continued attempts to instigate political change in the State, including one particularly noteworthy situation in which Fouritain attempted to send a freighter (under the cover of a humanitarian mission) with troops to occupy a Caldari station in Caldari Space which had been attacked by the Brothers of Freedom (a Caldari dissident group that many believe to have been funded and organized by the Federation). The occupation failed, by the way, when the freighter was destroyed by VETO, in transit.

I'll be short, as I had plenty of such discussions back in my days as a Law & Economics undergraduate in Caille, amongst the marvels of our democracy which certainly include distinguished drinks and college entertainment, and also because most of you are spitting out horrors that would make most of the political scientists of New Eden shiver in disgust.

I also do not intend to go ahead and judge which political system is best since I know about Caldari political system at least as much as you Caldari seem to know about ours: So little.

So, here are my points:

1 - How do you expect us to buy your meritocracy if you won't buy our democracy? Are you really so naive, dishonest or stupid to think that, just like you won't buy that democracy ensures every voice is heard, the best decisions are taken and the most competent leaders are chosen, we are buying that your meritocracy ensures every citizen starts with the same opportunities to earn merit, is rewarded and advances politically exactly according to his capabilities and merits - that is the funniest of all premises, considering you are, by definition, corporativist - or even that those on top won't try to supress those on the bottom but with greater capabilities and potential, while they're still growing? Please. If your top-bosses aren't making sure they remain in power by limiting the younger enterpreneurs, they're either stupid or naive. Your corporations wouldn't be much of some brilliant corporations if they didn't lend a hand to those less capable of their own in detriment of a more capable stranger, would they?

2 - Democracy has worked so far. The Federation is prosper, militarily strong and in it's own way has brought good living standards to it's people. And fun, we have a lot of fun, that sure is progress. We judge that people are excellent to choose, but terrible to rule, so we have our representative system, thus, it is pointless to say that "the people makes all the decisions". Of course, we also have our direct participation mechanisms to ensure that this will of the people is also well reflected, though not imperative. We also have great food, by the way.

3 - Someone has spoken also that democractic elected leaders aren't the most capable administrators, because they rely on social skills to win elections. Well, I like to think the best politicians are those who can work people to get their best - just like the best Fleet Commander often isn't the best pilot. To choose a leader based on this capabilities on the matter, but not on the skills to lead, is to fall into a poor technocracy. That's why our best leaders have their technical advisors. We don't want any geeky mathematicians managing our enterprises, do we?

4 - Mrs. Kim, I often see you spilling so much hatred against the Federation around here on the IGS. It's tacit to me that hate is mosty an irrational feeling, so I'd like to ask you: Which Gallente boy has broken your heart?
I know what ails you, so I'd love to invite you to have some coffee, or watch a movie in Caille. Afterwards I would also like to see all that anti-democratic and anti-gallentean passion and fiery behaviour as I introduce in - I mean, to - you the Bastion of Liberty, a... Gallente monument I'm particularly proud of.