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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Low-Security Space is VERY hostile towards new players.

First post
Author
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#41 - 2013-06-26 03:16:58 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Skill Training Online wrote:
Low-Security Space is VERY hostile towards new players.


Water is wet, and the Sun rises in the East Rick Romero.

Also: --> Features & Ideas Discussion

Look into a mirror and repeat to yourself, "I am not an ISD".

FW is very new player friendly and it takes place in lo sec.
Zircon Dasher
#42 - 2013-06-26 03:32:42 UTC
Gate camps exist primarily as a way to laugh at people who say you cannot fund PVP with PVP.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Ari Laveran
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-06-26 03:43:25 UTC
Look at your map, are there more than five pilots in space in that low sec entry point if yes also check ships destroyed in the last hour if it is not a FW system and that number is also higher than 5 it might be a camp.

Go around, not very hard at most low sec borders.
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#44 - 2013-06-26 03:47:22 UTC
Quote:
Low-Security Space is VERY hostile towards new players.


~FTFY

Title FLAGGED: MISLEADING

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#45 - 2013-06-26 03:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Ari Laveran wrote:
Look at your map, are there more than five pilots in space in that low sec entry point if yes also check ships destroyed in the last hour if it is not a FW system and that number is also higher than 5 it might be a camp.

Go around, not very hard at most low sec borders.


Yeah, but you see, they are arguing that "not being stupid" isn't enough of an appropriate counter.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

It's not like, you know, we're playing a video game here. Go figure.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lugia3
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#46 - 2013-06-26 03:50:15 UTC
EvE Online is a harsh game. If you don't like it, get out. The game isn't going to change because you're too soft to deal with it.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Mark Rain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-06-26 04:06:56 UTC
Stay in high-sec until you trained up....problem solved.

Winter is coming.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#48 - 2013-06-26 04:31:37 UTC
So, let's reiterate here.

Change is being asked for. The only argument being presented is either "I hate gatecamps!", or "gatecamps are unfair to new players!".

Anyone have anything that actually matters? Because the first is just whining, and the second? New players are bound to get burned in one way or another, it's the nature of the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#49 - 2013-06-26 04:46:34 UTC
Space doesn't space people. people space space people.

yes

Fenix Caderu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-06-26 04:52:43 UTC
But...it's low security, as in less security...it's meant to be dangerous. If such a thing existed IRL, it would be just as deadly for inexperienced pilots, if not more. It's human nature. Survival of the fittest. I think it's intended that way in game.

Also, it makes the rewards better for taking the risks. Otherwise, it'd get boring. making more lowsec or resources to go around would spread space too thin. As it is, there are many systems in low/null you pass through that are completely empty. It would make getting fights harder, taking a lot away from PVP.

You can, by the way, jump right into lowsec in a fast frigate. It doesn't take much training. If you know what you're doing, lowsec doesn't have to be such an unfriendly place. You could join a lowsec corp, setup your safe spots, etc.
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#51 - 2013-06-26 05:13:23 UTC
for the record i one time blew up a nub in a badger 1 in lowsec running transport mission. Others were running cap parts so couldn't let him go. I gave him 10x ship and mission value. That's pretty nub friendly imho. everyone else fair game...

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Onictus
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2013-06-26 05:20:40 UTC
Gogela wrote:
for the record i one time blew up a nub in a badger 1 in lowsec running transport mission. Others were running cap parts so couldn't let him go. I gave him 10x ship and mission value. That's pretty nub friendly imho. everyone else fair game...



I've paid a couple noobies after I killed them and noticed that they were on trial time.
Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-06-26 06:22:12 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
The Problem:
#3 Entering low-sec is very difficult
This leads us to two paths
Increase the Size of Low-sec gates so they are not as easily camped
Create a Jump timer where folks changing "sec" get a 30 second invulnerability timer to warp off, making camping inter-sec gates profitless.



Entering low sec isn't difficult. Last time I checked, there is a thing called a map. Use this and go to statistics > average pilots in space. Find an area that isn't as populated.

I do agree that more content (pve and pvp) should be added.



TharOkha
0asis Group
One Man Corps Alliance
#54 - 2013-06-26 07:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Skill Training Online wrote:
The Problem:
"The Brave Newcomer" are destroyed in low-sec on a daily basis....
....
...I hope we can get some constructive comments that will improve low-security space for new players as well as our valued veterans.
.


Look, i know that EVE is a little harder compared to nowadays consoloid "AAA" games, where you can solo kill 20 Russian spetsnaz soldiers with a knife or where auto healing is considered as a feature and not as cheat. But EVE is popular even 10 years later, because it is considered as "good old days" game. Hard and with learning curve from hell.

For new players there is hi-sec space. If you want to operate in lowsec you need to adapt (no matter if you are a newborn or veteran - skill points are not crucial for surviving low/null as you may assume). Join lowsec corp or create one and claim your system/constellation.

If you want to play solo, just follow simple rules as :
-avoiding lowsec bottlenecks and trade routes (like Rancer) and find yourself a nice quiet system. Bear in mind that aprox. 70% of lowsec is empty (null is even emptier) . You just need to go deeper into the low, not just 1-2 jumps from hi-sec.

or

-enter and fly lowsec with gatecamp proof ships (covops capable ships with buffer tank)
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-06-26 08:24:19 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
The Problem:
Far too many "little of everything" ships piloted by EVE's most valuable sort of player "The Brave Newcomer" are destroyed in low-sec on a daily basis.

A little of everything?
Yep, The list includes:
Mining Laser
Combat Laser
Missile Launcher
Probe Launcher
Shield Extenders
Small armor Repairer
Salvage Drones


So what to do about it?

#1 The content is far too severe for these type of ships to be competitive.
This leads us to two paths:
Fix the ships
Fix the Content


#2 The competition is fairly extreme as advanced players with skill points in excess of 25 to 30 million SP are competing for the exact same resources.
This leads us to two paths:
Increase the density of content
Create more low-security systems.


#3 Entering low-sec is very difficult
This leads us to two paths
Increase the Size of Low-sec gates so they are not as easily camped
Create a Jump timer where folks changing "sec" get a 30 second invulnerability timer to warp off, making camping inter-sec gates profitless.


Flame Retardant:
#1 I realize that some of the problems are related to "lack of knowledge" and that is partially responsible for bad fits.

#2 I am aware this is supposed to be a multi-player game, but when there is not enough content to go around it gets boring.

#3 I am not trying to kill pirates as a profession there are lots of gates that connect low to low, null to null that can be camped effectively. As a matter of fact if the transition gates were protected you'd have lots more people in the low-sec systems to kill.


The Sendoff:
Thanks for reading, I hope we can get some constructive comments that will improve low-security space for new players as well as our valued veterans.

My first venture into lowsec was with minimum skills and no combat experience outside the tutorial, the tutorial from 2 years ago. i hopped in a fleet with my brand new harbinger which was the most expensive asset i owned, got in a fleet with 4 other guys from the same mining corp i was, and went to lowsec.

you know what happened? we died in a fire.

you know how?

2 carriers dropped on us trying to save a faction fit pvp-vindicator they were using as bait.

we all died but so did their vindicator, and the only person who was all sulky and amd about that fight? the vindi pilot who kept insisting lag and poor mechanics made him die, instead of the 2 carriers who forgot to rep him and the fact he was usisng a faction fit vindi in the first place.



so in other words, lowsec is NOT "too hostile" to new players, new players just have to be prepared with a new mindset and realize, no they CANT compete 1 on 1, so they need to make friends and go as a group.


honestly its a concept that works anywhere in EVE.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-06-26 08:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
TharOkha wrote:
Look, i know that EVE is a little harder compared to nowadays consoloid "AAA" games, where you can solo kill 20 Russian spetsnaz soldiers with a knife or where auto healing is considered as a feature and not as cheat. But EVE is popular even 10 years later, because it is considered as "good old days" game. Hard and with learning curve from hell.


It's not the difficulty that sells them, it's what appeals to the player to hook them and socialization to keep them.

How WoW became #1 was...

1. Arrived at the right time (console gaming was just beginning).
2. Superior marketing (getting the games on the shelves at Wal-Mart on down).
3. Incorporating popular features from other games (why leave? WoW has the same thing deal).
4. Incorporating pop themes to be "hip" with a generation so influenced by peer pressure.
5. Despite anime style art themes, the animations aren't anime style (free flow animation seen in Disney -- which sets WoW far apart from all these other MMOs. Case in point - our EvE avatar animations, compared to even a Goblin in WoW. And no they don't have gate animations seen in EvE, either!).
6. The most important feature: socialization, if your friends and family play it, you're not leaving.

That's what separates AAA games from AAs. It's a familiar pattern in all of the top games. Be it WoW for MMOs, to CoD/BF for FPS games. No denying it, it is what sells and keeps players with the franchise. Anything less gets < 1 million of the subs (and usually that's even recycled with returning players from other MMOs).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-06-26 08:32:57 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Skill Training Online wrote:
The Problem:
Far too many "little of everything" ships piloted by EVE's most valuable sort of player "The Brave Newcomer" are destroyed in low-sec on a daily basis.

A little of everything?
Yep, The list includes:
Mining Laser
Combat Laser
Missile Launcher
Probe Launcher
Shield Extenders
Small armor Repairer
Salvage Drones


So what to do about it?

#1 The content is far too severe for these type of ships to be competitive.
This leads us to two paths:
Fix the ships
Fix the Content


#2 The competition is fairly extreme as advanced players with skill points in excess of 25 to 30 million SP are competing for the exact same resources.
This leads us to two paths:
Increase the density of content
Create more low-security systems.


#3 Entering low-sec is very difficult
This leads us to two paths
Increase the Size of Low-sec gates so they are not as easily camped
Create a Jump timer where folks changing "sec" get a 30 second invulnerability timer to warp off, making camping inter-sec gates profitless.


Flame Retardant:
#1 I realize that some of the problems are related to "lack of knowledge" and that is partially responsible for bad fits.

#2 I am aware this is supposed to be a multi-player game, but when there is not enough content to go around it gets boring.

#3 I am not trying to kill pirates as a profession there are lots of gates that connect low to low, null to null that can be camped effectively. As a matter of fact if the transition gates were protected you'd have lots more people in the low-sec systems to kill.


The Sendoff:
Thanks for reading, I hope we can get some constructive comments that will improve low-security space for new players as well as our valued veterans.

My first venture into lowsec was with minimum skills and no combat experience outside the tutorial, the tutorial from 2 years ago. i hopped in a fleet with my brand new harbinger which was the most expensive asset i owned, got in a fleet with 4 other guys from the same mining corp i was, and went to lowsec.

you know what happened? we died in a fire.

you know how?

2 carriers dropped on us trying to save a faction fit pvp-vindicator they were using as bait.

we all died but so did their vindicator, and the only person who was all sulky and amd about that fight? the vindi pilot who kept insisting lag and poor mechanics made him die, instead of the 2 carriers who forgot to rep him and the fact he was usisng a faction fit vindi in the first place.



so in other words, lowsec is NOT "too hostile" to new players, new players just have to be prepared with a new mindset and realize, no they CANT compete 1 on 1, so they need to make friends and go as a group.


honestly its a concept that works anywhere in EVE.


The thread title isn't 'losec was too hostile for noobs 2 years ago' lol.

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy

Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#58 - 2013-06-26 08:46:42 UTC
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#59 - 2013-06-26 08:54:19 UTC
Muad 'dib
The Nine Nine
#60 - 2013-06-26 09:01:02 UTC
BTW the newbs that dont die that make isk from rats and sites make A LOT of isk compared to their high sec scardy bear freinds.

dont concentrate on the fools that die, there are plenty that dont or at least when they do they have paid for their loss many times over.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.