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why legion instead of tengu
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Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-25 18:49:21 UTC
Im a newb. Aesthetics still matter to me. I prefer the legion look over dreary boxy tengu. What niche does legion fill. What can it do better than tengu?
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-06-25 18:50:27 UTC
No ammo in wh.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-06-25 19:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
Thats it it doesnt need ammo? Lets try from different angle. What can it do well....enough
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-06-25 19:10:27 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
No ammo in wh.

This basically.
Even though Blood Raiders and Sansha are weak to EM, the neuts and TD makes the Tengu preferable for some since neither affects missiles.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-06-25 19:35:24 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Thats it it doesnt need ammo? Lets try from different angle. What can it do well....enough

That is why I got legion, just for wh work. For everything else I have other ships.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-25 20:02:05 UTC
What is its next best function? Even if there are better ships for the task what else do people use the legion for? I ask because its gonna take me a while to train for the legion and t3s are gonna be rebalanced so im predicting that my training into the legion will prove to be worthwhile
Cyberin
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-06-25 20:15:36 UTC
I fly pretty much all Amarr at the moment...and fitting a legion makes me sad.

The people saying that it doesn't use ammo actually is probably one of it's strongest points sadly...it is the worst out of all the t3 ships at everything. Name one thing, other than not using much ammo...and another t3 can do it better.

Makes me sad :(

(this isn't saying that it sucks...it can do pretty good dps, or a godly tank if fit correctly...but still, both of those can be outdone by other t3s)
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2013-06-25 20:25:57 UTC
Cyberin wrote:
Name one thing, other than not using much ammo...and another t3 can do it better.


Armor boosting.

Somewhat niche, but it definitely does it better than any other T3.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#9 - 2013-06-25 20:30:41 UTC
Cyberin wrote:
I fly pretty much all Amarr at the moment...and fitting a legion makes me sad.

The people saying that it doesn't use ammo actually is probably one of it's strongest points sadly...it is the worst out of all the t3 ships at everything. Name one thing, other than not using much ammo...and another t3 can do it better.

Makes me sad :(

(this isn't saying that it sucks...it can do pretty good dps, or a godly tank if fit correctly...but still, both of those can be outdone by other t3s)


Keep reading this on these forums... our Legion pilots remind me not to listen to the posts on here. There are at least 3 viable fits we use on every PVP op we run. I would say the Legion is second only to the Proteus (might even be equal) in our fleets.

PVE... completely different beast. Loki and Tengu all the way (C5/6 sites).
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-25 20:39:01 UTC
AFK'ing missions.

[Legion, Drone]
True Sansha Medium Armor Repairer
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Medium Shield Transporter II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Garde II x2

Replace the CCCs with two nano accelerators and a nano pump to get a nearly 60% increase in tank for a minor increase in grid cost on the repper. So long as you take out the webbing ships first you should be able to tank pretty much everything with a 233-370 DPS "omni" tank and a 700m/s speed. Light drones will push 250 rDPS for hobs which is enough to eventually get most missions done, and once all the things that'll attack mediums are dead you can just deploy them for up to nearly 400 rDPS.

Tengu'll be better. Hell, laser and HAM legion will probably be better. They still require that you be AK while the drone build lets you be AFK.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-25 20:42:22 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
Cyberin wrote:
I fly pretty much all Amarr at the moment...and fitting a legion makes me sad.

The people saying that it doesn't use ammo actually is probably one of it's strongest points sadly...it is the worst out of all the t3 ships at everything. Name one thing, other than not using much ammo...and another t3 can do it better.

Makes me sad :(

(this isn't saying that it sucks...it can do pretty good dps, or a godly tank if fit correctly...but still, both of those can be outdone by other t3s)


Keep reading this on these forums... our Legion pilots remind me not to listen to the posts on here. There are at least 3 viable fits we use on every PVP op we run. I would say the Legion is second only to the Proteus (might even be equal) in our fleets.

PVE... completely different beast. Loki and Tengu all the way (C5/6 sites).



Breath of fresh air. Im planning my skills, i love the legion look. Please share whatever ur willing to share. Im sure the legion will get a buff in the rebalance so that by the time im done training the legion will be just fine to fly. But i need a direction to go in my skill plan
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-06-25 20:45:11 UTC
Shereza wrote:
AFK'ing missions.


Replace the CCCs with two nano accelerators and a nano pump to get a nearly 60% increase in tank for a minor increase in grid cost on the repper. So long as you take out the webbing ships first you should be able to tank pretty much everything with a 233-370 DPS "omni" tank and a 700m/s speed. Light drones will push 250 rDPS for hobs which is enough to eventually get most missions done, and once all the things that'll attack mediums are dead you can just deploy them for up to nearly 400 rDPS.

Tengu'll be better. Hell, laser and HAM legion will probably be better. They still require that you be AK while the drone build lets you be AFK.


Im looking for a small group pvp legion. Would a neut legion be best?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-06-25 20:46:49 UTC
curse or pilgrim does it better.

Art of Explosions
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-25 21:08:42 UTC
Ive gotten that legion is worse at every task than some other ship out there. Im doing market speculation if u will. Im gambling that legion will get buffed when t3s get balanced. Since its going to take me months to get into the legion. By the time i can fly it it will probably be pretty good.

So if we ignore how ship 'x' can do it better. What is the legion supposed to do well? What build almost doesnt suck?
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-25 21:37:55 UTC
That's just it, even after all the T2/T3 ships get rebalanced the legion shouldn't be the best ship in any role. T3 ships are supposed to be "jack of all, master of none" when it comes to ship design. It should be a good HAM boat, but not better than the sacrilege. It should be a good disruption boat, but not better than the curse or pilgrim. It should be a good laser boat, but not better than the zealot. It should do good work with gang links, but not be better than the damnation.

If the legion does get a boost don't expect it to be a major boost. If you really want to take advantage of the legion's strengths then pack a covert ops/bubble-proof fit, move it and some stuff to support it to no/low-sec, and then constantly change up your fittings to keep the "enemy" guessing as to what you'll bring to the party. You won't always be flying the "best" ship for a given job, but if you get people dancing to your tune they'll be fitting to counter something that you aren't flying and they'll be less likely to kill you.
Denuo Secus
#16 - 2013-06-25 21:38:57 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
curse or pilgrim does it better.


That's exactly what t3's are about. Curse and Pilgrim are specialists. They should perform better in this role. T3s bring all this features (tank, damage, ewar) in one package but less effective.

For instance, I read about very tanky, pure neut Legions. Something a Curse or Pilgrim cannot do. Same for the damage role. Zealot is very cool for damage projection. The Legion does it equally well but with much better tank or with a token neut or drones on top.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-06-25 21:43:53 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
curse or pilgrim does it better.


That's exactly what t3's are about. Curse and Pilgrim are specialists. They should perform better in this role. T3s bring all this features (tank, damage, ewar) in one package but less effective.

For instance, I read about very tanky, pure neut Legions. Something a Curse or Pilgrim cannot do. Same for the damage role. Zealot is very cool for damage projection. The Legion does it equally well but with much better tank or with a token neut or drones on top.


Yes but it comes at double or more the pricetag where in most situations the extra tank will not matter.

Art of Explosions
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-25 21:50:16 UTC
Shereza wrote:
That's just it, even after all the T2/T3 ships get rebalanced the legion shouldn't be the best ship in any role. T3 ships are supposed to be "jack of all, master of none" when it comes to ship design. It should be a good HAM boat, but not better than the sacrilege. It should be a good disruption boat, but not better than the curse or pilgrim. It should be a good laser boat, but not better than the zealot. It should do good work with gang links, but not be better than the damnation.

If the legion does get a boost don't expect it to be a major boost. If you really want to take advantage of the legion's strengths then pack a covert ops/bubble-proof fit, move it and some stuff to support it to no/low-sec, and then constantly change up your fittings to keep the "enemy" guessing as to what you'll bring to the party. You won't always be flying the "best" ship for a given job, but if you get people dancing to your tune they'll be fitting to counter something that you aren't flying and they'll be less likely to kill you.


Currently the tengu is used excessively because its so good.

Were almost on the 2nd page of this topic and except for one guy its all been about how legion cant do anything even remotely competantly its just that bad.

Do u guys seriously believe this imbalance will continue after the 're' balance? I need to plan my skills and i can see far enough into the future to know that the legion will be buffed and the tengu will be nerfed. I like the look of the legion and im taking the gamble that it will be worth flying.

So, if we pretend that the legion doesnt suck how would u fit it? Id post my fit but with no pvp exp i just get laughed at. So lets skip that step.
Denuo Secus
#19 - 2013-06-25 21:50:40 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Denuo Secus wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
curse or pilgrim does it better.


That's exactly what t3's are about. Curse and Pilgrim are specialists. They should perform better in this role. T3s bring all this features (tank, damage, ewar) in one package but less effective.

For instance, I read about very tanky, pure neut Legions. Something a Curse or Pilgrim cannot do. Same for the damage role. Zealot is very cool for damage projection. The Legion does it equally well but with much better tank or with a token neut or drones on top.


Yes but it comes at double or more the pricetag where in most situations the extra tank will not matter.


True, in some situations (fleets, medium sized gangs) a pure specialist is better. In other situations (solo, very small gang) the extra flexibility and the "all in one package" idea is better and worth the price tag.
Denuo Secus
#20 - 2013-06-25 22:09:32 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Currently the tengu is used excessively because its so good.

Were almost on the 2nd page of this topic and except for one guy its all been about how legion cant do anything even remotely competantly its just that bad.

Do u guys seriously believe this imbalance will continue after the 're' balance? I need to plan my skills and i can see far enough into the future to know that the legion will be buffed and the tengu will be nerfed. I like the look of the legion and im taking the gamble that it will be worth flying.

So, if we pretend that the legion doesnt suck how would u fit it? Id post my fit but with no pvp exp i just get laughed at. So lets skip that step.


Try to see it from a different perspective. Damage wise, t3s compete with HACs. The Tengu is so good because Caldari HACs are quite bad. The Legion is received as "not worth the price" because Amarr HACs are very strong already. I really hope T2 rebalancing changes this. T3's are about flexibility. If you want pure performance you should be more effective with the specialists (HACs or recons).

So the Legion is a tanky Zealot with drones and/or an extra neut or a tanky Pilgrim. That's all and it's ok that way imho. Only one thing is considered as really bad on the Legion: the covert sub. Because of the cap usage bonus it does really low damage when using that sub. Let's hope this will be changed some day.

Also: t3s are too one-dimensional at the moment. The Tengu is only famous for it's missile version. The Legion is mostly used as HAM boat and so on. Drone Legions or blaster Tengus should become a valid option as well. Then we have a real benefit when using t3s.
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