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Democracy versus dictatorship

Author
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#1 - 2013-06-25 17:51:20 UTC
Recent events are already setting off the journals in fits of chin-wagging, jaw-stroking, and temple-scratching regarding the strengths and weaknesses of the Caldari system, with radical articles published to gain as maximum a readership as possible, and then counter-radical articles published to similarly gain attention. As always, the truth of the matter is somewhere in between these polarizing opinion pieces. When the crisis subsides, we'll likely see moderate, introspective, and reflective articles that encapsulate that.

The ongoing civil strife within the State is a prototypical example of the greatest flaw with dictatorship; it can only be removed by force. It is my personal opinion that a corrupt democracy is superior to an efficient dictatorship because of that exact reason. A corrupt democracy can be corrected peaceably. The last political crisis in the Federation was President Souro Foiritan's attempted nationalization of the arms industry. This did not end with bloodshed, but instead procedures to a vote of no confidence and ultimately an executive resignation. Something like Haatamo is far less likely to occur in the Federation than it is in the State.

I am not trying to score points here by exploiting a serious political incident. Just the Federation's merits are seldom considered by capsuleers. In essence, "democracy is not all bad". Consider the four great civilizations of the Federation, and the lesser known races. How could you bring those groups into interstellar union on equal terms without democracy? I feel that is an exercise in futility.

While Gallentean democracy will not have the efficiency of Caldari meritocracy or the stability of Amarrian autocracy, it will have the pluralism that neither of those systems could enshrine. We all have our strengths, and we all have our weaknesses.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-25 18:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
The law protects only against those who agree to be bound by it. Authority only has power over those who accept it.

Foiritain did. Heth didn't. Their examples speak to nothing about our relative political systems, only their personalities.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#3 - 2013-06-25 18:33:11 UTC
I should perhaps clarify that Tibus Heth's dictatorship is exceptionalist, and thus he speaks only about dictatorship in general, not the normalized Caldari system.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2013-06-25 18:33:41 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

I am not trying to score points here by exploiting a serious political incident.


Yes, you are.

You beat around the bush a great deal, but ultimately you are.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#5 - 2013-06-25 18:36:05 UTC
Gee, I guess you got me then.
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#6 - 2013-06-25 18:37:33 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

I am not trying to score points here by exploiting a serious political incident.


Inhonores. No. You are someone I fear cannot make a series of statements like this and expect that nobody will take note of you as the speaker.

Stop now, before your foot becomes caught in your mouth again.
Shiho Weitong
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-25 18:41:41 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
How could you bring those groups into interstellar union on equal terms without democracy?



Let me counter.

Why would we allow the weak and illoyal into the state?
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#8 - 2013-06-25 18:44:11 UTC
Mr. Inhonores, the rest of it is, as you say, personal opinion on the virtues and vices of each system. As virtue and vice are both subject to the world-view of the person writing, I doubt it'd be productive for me to try to address you on those.

Still, that you'd claim to not be trying to 'score points' on a terrorist incident when you're doing that -- well, that was galling.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#9 - 2013-06-25 18:45:08 UTC
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:
Stop now, before your foot becomes caught in your mouth again.


Democracy gives everyone a voice, no matter how 'foot-in-mouth' it may be, no?

Shiho Weitong wrote:
Why would we allow the weak and illoyal into the state?


Democracy does not discriminate based on who is strong and weak.
Anslo
Scope Works
#10 - 2013-06-25 18:46:38 UTC
Democracy apparently does not fix stupid either...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-25 18:48:20 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:

The ongoing civil strife within the State is a prototypical example of the greatest flaw with dictatorship; it can only be removed by force. It is my personal opinion that a corrupt democracy is superior to an efficient dictatorship because of that exact reason. A corrupt democracy can be corrected peaceably.

I have a diametrically opposite point of view: even the best and successful form of democracy is inferior to even corrupt dictatorship.

And I really doubt you can correct all kind of democracies peaceably. For example, take recent events happened in Luminaire solar system. Federal government were ready to sacrifice the whole planet, just to destroy one ship. Or even worse, they were trying to destroy the whole planet by staging attack on the said ship and the planet at the same time, luring ship to fire upon it. And what now? They are all still acting, safe and sound.

They are definitely not planning to correct themselves. They only way I see how to fix it, is to spill their blood.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Shiho Weitong
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-06-25 18:49:02 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:
Stop now, before your foot becomes caught in your mouth again.


Democracy gives everyone a voice, no matter how 'foot-in-mouth' it may be, no?

Shiho Weitong wrote:
Why would we allow the weak and illoyal into the state?


Democracy does not discriminate based on who is strong and weak.


You say that as if it's a good thing.

We have no use for weakness.
We have no use for entitlement.

Why should someone who is less productive than me, be considered my equal?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#13 - 2013-06-25 18:50:33 UTC
Well you keep your democracy, and we'll keep our meritocracy. That said, you do make some good, if obvious, point... but I'll point out that Tibus Heth's five year Executorship was not something that should be considered 'normal' for the Caldari State. Keep in mind the hundreds of years we spent without anything like him.

Katrina Oniseki

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-25 18:51:45 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:
Stop now, before your foot becomes caught in your mouth again.


Democracy gives everyone a voice, no matter how 'foot-in-mouth' it may be, no?

Democracy gives voice of old and wise scientist the same value as voice of drunken janitor.

And this is why the Federation must be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#15 - 2013-06-25 18:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Okazon
Stitcher wrote:
The law protects only against those who agree to be bound by it. Authority only has power over those who accept it.

Foiritain did. Heth didn't. Their examples speak to nothing about our relative political systems, only their personalities.


Can any case study actually speak to the strength of a political system? All leaders have personalities; for that matter, all citizens do as well.

We've consistently been able to do away with governors that displease us. It's not a one-off thing. The thing about the crowd is that it won't take you to heaven -- at least not in the short term. But it'll keep you out of hell. Over the long term, I would argue that avoiding these disasters of truly awful leadership is what has allowed the Federation to prosper and endure.

People have many philosophical arguments as to why democracy must fail -- and yet on it shambles.
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#16 - 2013-06-25 18:53:42 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:


Democracy gives everyone a voice, no matter how 'foot-in-mouth' it may be, no?



Certainly, though that does not preclude me from using my voice to say I think you should stop it.

There are some IGS commentators that truly make me cringe, Inhonoures. Because when I see them capering around with their underwear on their head, I know deep down that there are casual observers that will forever mistake your brand of performance art for common Federal or even Gallente opinion.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#17 - 2013-06-25 19:00:50 UTC
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:
There are some IGS commentators that truly make me cringe, Inhonoures. Because when I see them capering around with their underwear on their head, I know deep down that there are casual observers that will forever mistake your brand of performance art for common Federal or even Gallente opinion.


I could make a dummy Neocom avatar to talk about the same things if that will make you happy, Narcisa.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#18 - 2013-06-25 19:01:44 UTC
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:


Democracy gives everyone a voice, no matter how 'foot-in-mouth' it may be, no?



Certainly, though that does not preclude me from using my voice to say I think you should stop it.

There are some IGS commentators that truly make me cringe, Inhonoures. Because when I see them capering around with their underwear on their head, I know deep down that there are casual observers that will forever mistake your brand of performance art for common Federal or even Gallente opinion.


This vitriol really is a little excessive, ma'am.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-06-25 19:05:16 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Well you keep your democracy, and we'll keep our meritocracy. That said, you do make some good, if obvious, point... but I'll point out that Tibus Heth's five year Executorship was not something that should be considered 'normal' for the Caldari State. Keep in mind the hundreds of years we spent without anything like him.

Indeed, these five years the State was shining with brilliance as never before, and our descendants will forever remember glorious rule of Executor Tibus Heth, revering him among such patriots as Admiral Tovil-Toba.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#20 - 2013-06-25 19:08:41 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Recent events are already setting off the journals in fits of chin-wagging, jaw-stroking, and temple-scratching regarding the strengths and weaknesses of the Caldari system, with radical articles published to gain as maximum a readership as possible, and then counter-radical articles published to similarly gain attention. As always, the truth of the matter is somewhere in between these polarizing opinion pieces. When the crisis subsides, we'll likely see moderate, introspective, and reflective articles that encapsulate that.

The ongoing civil strife within the State is a prototypical example of the greatest flaw with dictatorship; it can only be removed by force. It is my personal opinion that a corrupt democracy is superior to an efficient dictatorship because of that exact reason. A corrupt democracy can be corrected peaceably. The last political crisis in the Federation was President Souro Foiritan's attempted nationalization of the arms industry. This did not end with bloodshed, but instead procedures to a vote of no confidence and ultimately an executive resignation. Something like Haatamo is far less likely to occur in the Federation than it is in the State.

I am not trying to score points here by exploiting a serious political incident. Just the Federation's merits are seldom considered by capsuleers. In essence, "democracy is not all bad". Consider the four great civilizations of the Federation, and the lesser known races. How could you bring those groups into interstellar union on equal terms without democracy? I feel that is an exercise in futility.

While Gallentean democracy will not have the efficiency of Caldari meritocracy or the stability of Amarrian autocracy, it will have the pluralism that neither of those systems could enshrine. We all have our strengths, and we all have our weaknesses.


Oh, yeah, this is a GREAT time ta be talkin down your nose to the Caldari. Right when we're just starting to work **** out after Heth's dumb ass wrecked everything, you start spewing this typical Gallente BS.

Don't make me get the dreadnought.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler

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