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When will EVE Online get a 64 bit client?

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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2013-06-19 14:51:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and (also again) that's before we even begin to discuss the costs, such as potential loss of middleware components, loss of subscribers (or increased dev load from duplicating their efforts across two clients), increased memory footprints, etc. 64-bit may be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't matter if EVE happens to be on a yoghurt-only diet and would turn inside-out and explode if you fed it some fibre.


Even Blizzard told players they'll stop supporting the oldest of old videocards and OSes.

Progress is like that.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#182 - 2013-06-19 15:04:03 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Also WoW has 64bits. When will we finally close the bit-gap? What is CCP's agenda here?

Let's see here:
· 3DO — 32bit, released 1993. Units sold: 2M.
· Atari Jaguar — 64bit, released 1993. Units sold: <250k.
· Sony Playstation — 32bit, released 1994. Units sold: 102M(!!)
· Sega Saturn — 2×32bit, released 1994. Units sold: 9.5M.
· Nintendo 64 — 64bit, released 1996. Units sold: 33M.

“Closing the bit gap” is for suckers and PR reps. P

Ace Uoweme wrote:
Even Blizzard told players they'll stop supporting the oldest of old videocards and OSes.
So, much like CCP, then.
Kenpachi Viktor
Perkone
Caldari State
#183 - 2013-06-19 15:17:31 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
So I did some more research on this 64bit thing and came across the following graph in a devblog:

http://i.imgur.com/XhgcJMc.png

CCP, HOW CAN YOU STILL DENY US A 64BIT CLIENT WHEN 64BIT IS TWICE AS AWESOME AS 32BIT?

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO COVER UP THIS SCIENTIFIC FACT?

YOUR OWN WORDS PROVE YOU WRONG, CCP EXPLORER.
Big smile

The server is 64-bit and the DB is 64-bit. What is needed to have 64-bit is 64-bit.

The client is 32-bit since we need to support Windows XP, there is overhead in having two clients, some of the middleware is only available as 32-bit and there is no reason to have the client as 64-bit.


When the high res texture pack comes out; how much additional memory usage would you recommend to expect?

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV
Tixam Quri
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#184 - 2013-06-19 15:21:26 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The fully useful lifespan of a computer used for gaming is 3 years.
The fully useful lifespan of a computer not used for gaming is 5 years.

Obviously there are exceptions, but its a pretty good guideline for planning computer purchases and/or upgrades.


I have to question this since I built my wife's and my gaming rigs almost 2 years ago... and I'm already itching to go from SLI GTX560 ti's to SLI GTX780's...

I loved XP's stability over win98 too, and clung to it for years; win 7 is much faster and imo worth the upgrade..

Bring on tessellation, DX11 and have the client support older 32bit systems. Seems fair to me, but then again I'm a nurse not a programmer so I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about.

Jafit McJafitson- "try scamming people. it's like PvP, but with words. Their greed is your warp scrambler, your lies are your autocannons."
Tixam Quri
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2013-06-19 15:53:46 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
there is only need for a 64-bit EVE Client once we need more than 3 GB on Windows XP / Windows Vista 32 or 4 GB on Windows Vista/7/8 64.


Was the tessellation/physics demo from FF 2012 a teaser of things to come?

Are hi-res graphics in the pipeline?

Do you see the need for "more than 3 GB" as something in a future client version?

Many of us really want these things.

My wife says EVE looks dated, and she hates the fact that there are no physics with collidable objects/roids etc. I agree to some extent.

Overall I think the game looks good, but some scalable improvement seem reasonable. I 'll even chip in a plex or two to help fund it Big smile

I always try to give my wife what she wantsTwistedshe deserves it!

Jafit McJafitson- "try scamming people. it's like PvP, but with words. Their greed is your warp scrambler, your lies are your autocannons."
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#186 - 2013-06-19 16:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and (also again) that's before we even begin to discuss the costs, such as potential loss of middleware components, loss of subscribers (or increased dev load from duplicating their efforts across two clients), increased memory footprints, etc. 64-bit may be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't matter if EVE happens to be on a yoghurt-only diet and would turn inside-out and explode if you fed it some fibre.


Even Blizzard told players they'll stop supporting the oldest of old videocards and OSes.

Progress is like that.



Sure it is, but progress for its on sake is a useless waste of energy. So what tangible benefits do you think that a 64-bit client would bring to offset those costs?


Please keep the following in mind when you respond:
CCP Explorer wrote:
The server is 64-bit and the DB is 64-bit. What is needed to have 64-bit is 64-bit.

The client is 32-bit since we need to support Windows XP, there is overhead in having two clients, some of the middleware is only available as 32-bit and there is no reason to have the client as 64-bit.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#187 - 2013-06-19 16:17:03 UTC
Tixam Quri wrote:
I loved XP's stability over win98 too, and clung to it for years; win 7 is much faster and imo worth the upgrade.



Just for reference: Windows 8 is absolutely fine. The start screen is a mild annoyance, but unless you have the intellect of a child, that fades within hours (it's not like you have to sit and stare at it, after all)

Everything else is an incremental upgrade on windows 7, with some good changes under the hood. Like a better implementation of ASLR

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Lady Areola Fappington
#188 - 2013-06-19 16:22:08 UTC
Wait...with CCPs history of, we'll politely say "flubbing" releases, you want them to recode the entire client to 64 bit, for no real reason.

Yeah, no thanks. Don't fix what ain't broke.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
KardelSharpeye
The Watchtower.
#189 - 2013-06-19 16:28:50 UTC
Tixam Quri wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
there is only need for a 64-bit EVE Client once we need more than 3 GB on Windows XP / Windows Vista 32 or 4 GB on Windows Vista/7/8 64.


Was the tessellation/physics demo from FF 2012 a teaser of things to come?

Are hi-res graphics in the pipeline?

Do you see the need for "more than 3 GB" as something in a future client version?

Many of us really want these things.

My wife says EVE looks dated, and she hates the fact that there are no physics with collidable objects/roids etc. I agree to some extent.

Overall I think the game looks good, but some scalable improvement seem reasonable. I 'll even chip in a plex or two to help fund it Big smile

I always try to give my wife what she wantsTwistedshe deserves it!


I find the graphics to be pretty good, the physics though have nothing to do with the client the whole simulation is entirely server side the reason you get weird bounces (even considering EVE is underwater) is because the ships are just spheres in the server's simulation.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#190 - 2013-06-19 17:35:39 UTC
Today's devblog, New system requirements for EVE (feedback thread), might be of interest to the readers of this thread.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#191 - 2013-06-19 17:39:34 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Today's devblog, New system requirements for EVE (feedback thread), might be of interest to the readers of this thread.




In before relic computer user tears.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Vestor
Magma Planetary Investigation
#192 - 2013-06-19 22:10:34 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

In before relic computer user tears.

I am very disappointed because my computer is still not obsolete now.
I need an i7@5Ghz with 16GB ram requirement (Also Quad SLI d'oh), so I can justify an upgrade :(

"... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB." CCP FoxFour | Game Designer | Team True Grit
Khira Kitamatsu
#193 - 2013-06-20 00:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Khira Kitamatsu
CCP Explorer wrote:
Today's devblog, New system requirements for EVE (feedback thread), might be of interest to the readers of this thread.




Does this mean we might see new shinies? Custom corp decals for ships and maybe paint schemes, too? Big smile

Ponies!  We need more ponies!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#194 - 2013-06-20 00:52:09 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Does this mean why might see new shinies? Custom corp decals for ships and maybe paint schemes, too? Big smile
No, it means they can't really test anything older than that right now because :effort:
New shinies will happen regardless.
Kewso
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-06-21 04:15:13 UTC
Just imagine what Eve would look like in 64 bits?!?!

It would be like upgrading from Super Nintendo to Nintendo 64!!! OMG!

DO EEET!#@!#
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis
The Lost Drone Society
#196 - 2013-06-21 04:32:51 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tixam Quri wrote:
I loved XP's stability over win98 too, and clung to it for years; win 7 is much faster and imo worth the upgrade.



Just for reference: Windows 8 is absolutely fine. The start screen is a mild annoyance, but unless you have the intellect of a child, that fades within hours (it's not like you have to sit and stare at it, after all)

Everything else is an incremental upgrade on windows 7, with some good changes under the hood. Like a better implementation of ASLR



Dude, your partially talking to people that have been complaining the last two weeks about not being able to work a login screen. Throwing something highly advanced and super computer complex like Windows 8 at them is just way too much to askPirate

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#197 - 2013-06-21 23:34:39 UTC
I have removed some of topic and troll posts. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Asptar Monastair
Frontier Adventurers
#198 - 2013-06-23 16:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Asptar Monastair
Is this bit deficiency the reason we don't have HQ textures yet? Would the client need to herd in more rams than available?
Prestb
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#199 - 2013-06-25 03:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Prestb
Haulie Berry wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Let me put it this way, other MMO's, ones older than EVE Online offer 64bit versions of the game. That means people that cannot run 64bit can still run 32bit, but those with the ability to run the 64bit can. Look at WoW as an example. Back when the first introduced 64bit I and many millions of other players saw a huge jump in game performance by moving to 64bit client. That is all I am asking for here. Is the ability to fully utilize what my machine is capable of doing. For anyone to say that we would not see improvements in this game is just being silly - especially if CCP wrote the code to optimize the use of a 64bit system.

Then they could release a DX11, tessellation and better physics to those of us that can make use of it. All I wish to see is EVE grow into a more robust and enriching game experience and environment. As it is now CCP is tied to the fact that some people refuse to upgrade their gaming rigs and or OS's. How is that fair to the hundreds of thousands that have decent up-to-date gaming rigs?



Plooooooooeeeeeeeeeaaasse. This is either a lie, or a kind-of placebo effect. Or, other changes were made in that client. It would be remarkably silly that simply moving from 32 to 64 bit, all else being equal (except the size of your pointers, which are twice as large) would give you a performance boost.

With respect to tessellation... no. You've either got to go all-in with one or the other, but not both. Why? In order to do it properly, you'll need two pipelines of art assets. That's very expensive to produce and support.

And... Eve has Physics? That's a bit of a shock to be honest. Where? Lol


Look, you just don't understand.

Currently, we have this many bits:
.............................
And we COULD have THIS many bits:
........................................................

Do you not see how the latter is better in every conceivable way? The fact that they haven't already given us the extra bits we deserve is frankly indicative of gross negligence (or possibly even a bit-hoarding conspiracy) on CCP's part.


Moar bits!

CCP Explorer wrote:
Today's devblog, New system requirements for EVE (feedback thread), might be of interest to the readers of this thread.



Mr.Explorer, teach me computer!

On topic:
Like most of the other here said, why on earth should EVE Online be switched to 64-Bit if the game hasn't even taken full advantage of 32-Bit yet? It would be pointless to switch over until it's actually necessary for the game to be playable and fun. :D And just because only 10-15 percent of the EVE Online community still use something older than Windows 7, doesn't mean it's a good idea to switch over to 64-bit. Put yourself in their shoes, OP. You'd be pissed if CCP had switched EVE Online to 64-bit and you had to upgrade your rig, or in some cases get a whole new PC, especially seeing as how most of that 10-15 percent have older machines due to money. Don't act like a greedy butthole, it only makes you look silly.
Haulie Berry
#200 - 2013-06-25 15:32:15 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

My first computer was a kit built Timex-Sinclair back in 1983.

.....

When you running 3 clients.......................



So, the one thing we can positively ascertain from this post is that being able to assemble a computer from kit doesn't magically imbue one with basic knowledge of computing.

If you're running three separate clients, each independent process is going to have its own block of independently addressed memory. Three clients will use more memory from the system (in which case, having a 64 bit OS and plenty of RAM could be of value), but no individual client will use any more memory than it would while a single client was running.