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EVE Launcher - a comparison

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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-06-25 11:52:24 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Kamii Yo, I did say I was taking his feedback into consideration so I don't see how you can say I'm not accepting criticism on it. I welcome all this and all the other feedback we've been getting; having players passionate enough to provide this feedback and not just walk away is what I love about EVE players.

Equating yourself to one launcher doesn't make things magically better or worse, it just means you're mimicking a particular product. Sturmwolke has provided a number of good comparisons between the World Of Tanks/World Of Warplanes launchers and the EVE Launcher, some of which we ourselves have run into: we particularly wavered over the text feedback, and whether we wanted it more verbose (and in some cases overly technical) or less verbose and thus more of a progress indicator than anything else.

The feedback and any actions we take based upon it has to be balanced against other industry behemoths, who basically set the trend for how launchers are handled in the industry; Blizzard's Diablo 3 and World Of Warcraft launchers are a good example of this. They cater to many millions of players, but in my mind are too busy and fussy.



The guy (op) made some points, how good or bad I can't really appreciate them because of 2 simple factors: I've never experienced the lightest problem with the new launcher since the first install (really any at all) and second because I have the feeling I have all the information I need in this launcher.

Design wise there's a bit too much yellow imho, duno the effect for color blind people or even if affects them at all, the patching progressing bar could indeed use some little changes:

"Information" : while from a PC nerd point of view "downloading means downloading" for younger of less experienced players, non English native etc this current version and it's terms might be confusing.
Wouldn't hurt to change a bit that progression bar with a specific Icon easily recognizable, generaly recognizable is the best choice imho not to make it like the others but only in the greatest interest that is uniform some information doesn't mean loose identity.

We have phone cells, smartphones, tablets, laptops etc etc, all have their specific languages specific programs (some) specific "snowflake" icons and language or terms, far too much information or diversity kills information and diversity.
As a user I tend to use programs and hardware that suit my point of view, Eve being one exception, just because it's silly having to decode the smallest information that should be simple, clear like water and anyone in the world without having solid experience with English language could easily identify what's going on, Icons help achieve this "many words and _" don't.

I can add after this small wall of uninteresting stuff that I'm happy with my new launcher, a little bit "déjà vu" unlike the old login window but I can't say that I don't like it.
Keep the good work going and keep looking further, listening and finding new solutions, it's all good.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#22 - 2013-06-25 11:55:47 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
Sturmwolke wrote:

The WG launcher may be simpler (in technical terms), but this is actually a good thing.
Their playerbase counts in the millions, therefore you get to see all sorts of software/hardware configurations.
Now, imagine putting an EVE like launcher after Odyssey .......

Yes, their launcher made with one simple assumption that most of the playerbase are brainless idiots (and any SerB answer session proves this every time). This works perfectly in WoT, but do you really want to be threated like this in EVE?



I quite like that EVE usually takes the opposite route and assumes we're intelligent, and might know how to solve our own problems.

A cryptic error message or a sanitary "oops, something broke" message mean the same thing to non-technical users. They'll be coming to the forums to tell us all about it either way, and if they post the cryptic error, someone else might be able to solve it quickly for them.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
sally Deninard
mss industry
#23 - 2013-06-25 11:57:30 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I think CCP should work towards switching characters and possibly accounts without relogging, its a real pain in the ass.
Also is it just me, or after the odyssey there isnt "restart" button ingame anymore, meaning when I want to switch character, I need to quit eve client first and the go throught launcher again manually? Previously it was easier, or maybe I am missing something?
Also the whole launcher concept seems redundant to me, eve was updating itself very well even before launcher.

If you close the EVE Launcher after logging in, yes it does require you to reauthenticate. If you leave it open and logged in on the account you want to switch characters with though, it's easy to change characters by simply clicking 'play' again.


Clicking play on an open launcher to change toons just kicks you off your current client by opening a new client and clogging up your pc with new processes. It`s just a ******** answer to a valid point. Multi boxers also do not want to keep the launcher open either as they will want to reduce load too.
With the promotion of multi training chars, you should be looking at making a char switch easier. The ability to just log back to the char screen would be a very simple and attractive feature and make the general "living with " eve experience alot friendlier.
smokess
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-06-25 12:07:48 UTC
Wow.

I can't imagine wasting the amount of time it has taken you to create the OP over what essentially comes down to 'I want to start my computer game in a different way wah!' (no offence intended Atropos).

So it takes a little longer to log into the game. Personally, I go and make a drink while the client updates itself.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
#25 - 2013-06-25 12:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
CCP Atropos wrote:
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I think CCP should work towards switching characters and possibly accounts without relogging, its a real pain in the ass.
Also is it just me, or after the odyssey there isnt "restart" button ingame anymore, meaning when I want to switch character, I need to quit eve client first and the go throught launcher again manually? Previously it was easier, or maybe I am missing something?
Also the whole launcher concept seems redundant to me, eve was updating itself very well even before launcher.

If you close the EVE Launcher after logging in, yes it does require you to reauthenticate. If you leave it open and logged in on the account you want to switch characters with though, it's easy to change characters by simply clicking 'play' again.

But what if you want different accounts to use different settings? (Via symlinks e.g.).
E.g. I have my main account use 1 2/3 monitors and medium-high gfx, while my 2nd account is setup with a smaller window and all gfx to low.

Keeping the launcher open will only become an option once you can store different settings per account - which should now be feasible to implement (I hope), as the login happens before the client starts!
Alternatively, allow us to manage setting profiles.
Mytai Gengod
Sebees
#26 - 2013-06-25 12:59:35 UTC
I love the game and have very little that I could complain about. But I did not like the launcher change and the repeated issues that followed. As is known, on several occasions players had to bypass the launcher to launch the game. Most understand why players had to do so but regardless of reason that should never happen. I should not have a shortcut to /bin beside the current launcher. That really says it all.

I've also noticed a dramatic reduction in defense of the new launcher by CSM and loyal players. I think this also indicates that the new launcher should be re-evaluated completely.

I haven't noticed a huge improvement on downloading patches but I have noticed not being able to log into the game repeatedly due to the new launcher. That is not a net improvement.
Kult Altol
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-06-25 13:13:59 UTC
I would like easier character switching. Also GW2 has a very nice minimalist approach.

Big downloading bar would be nice, way to small. I like to see progress nit squint at it.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#28 - 2013-06-25 13:30:27 UTC
I think the op tried really hard to sound like he knew what he was talking about. I think the op failed. Many of his 'comparisons' between the new launcher and this World of Tanks launcher are very narrow and lack meaty, real information.

But, our dear dev seems to be skipping over some of the downright honest and friendly requests.

- CCP, please hear us when we say we would love to go straight back to the character selection screen from within the game. I *know* that the launcher really does ease us down that road faster than the old launcher did. But we're one set of coding away from fairly simple 'ease of use'. I don't understand why you guys seem so resistant to this.

- CCP, please allow us to save our passwords in the launcher for each login. Okay, I understand that this opens more room for 'my cat logged in and destroyed my titan' petitions, but in all seriousness this really isn't your problem. Just give us a heavy handed message about strangers touching our pc's, and give us the option. Please.

- Please understand that we really loved the themed and minimalistic look of the old login screen, and many of us nostalgic types would love to see that brought back in somehow. So while the launcher is straightforward about the information, maybe a new and unique character selection screen could be given more power.

- CCP, let us select a character from the launcher, if we so desire, and that way we can happily skip and hop right into the game.

- CCP, thank you for the speed and reliability you've added to patching. SOME of us notice, and we love you for it.


I'm not sure about launching multiple accounts on different screens simultaneously. I know some users wish to replace some third party programs, but since I don't need the functionality myself or use it, I'll let others plead.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#29 - 2013-06-25 13:49:33 UTC
Ruze wrote:
(...)

- Please understand that we really loved the themed and minimalistic look of the old login screen, and many of us nostalgic types would love to see that brought back in somehow. So while the launcher is straightforward about the information, maybe a new and unique character selection screen could be given more power.

(...)


Albeit I think that this is not CCP Atropos' job, certainly it would had been nice that someone figured that the login screen was a relevant part of the player experience and replacing it with a white progress bar, then throw us into the usual uninspiring character selection screen is underwhelming. Ugh

On the launcher, well, even my favorite launcher (GW2) is just like my favorite dentist... P
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2013-06-25 14:33:58 UTC
Ruze wrote:
I think the op tried really hard to sound like he knew what he was talking about. I think the op failed. Many of his 'comparisons' between the new launcher and this World of Tanks launcher are very narrow and lack meaty, real information.

But, our dear dev seems to be skipping over some of the downright honest and friendly requests.

I'll go through your statements one at a time.

Ruze wrote:
- CCP, please hear us when we say we would love to go straight back to the character selection screen from within the game. I *know* that the launcher really does ease us down that road faster than the old launcher did. But we're one set of coding away from fairly simple 'ease of use'. I don't understand why you guys seem so resistant to this.

This isn't quite the easy task you make it out to be; the client needs some extensive work to be able to restart a character from a fresh state and as such this is a large undertaking. This is why the old "logoff" button simply rebooted your client and sent you to the log in screen again.

Ruze wrote:
- CCP, please allow us to save our passwords in the launcher for each login. Okay, I understand that this opens more room for 'my cat logged in and destroyed my titan' petitions, but in all seriousness this really isn't your problem. Just give us a heavy handed message about strangers touching our pc's, and give us the option. Please.

We've had much the same thoughts and are working on this.

Ruze wrote:
- Please understand that we really loved the themed and minimalistic look of the old login screen, and many of us nostalgic types would love to see that brought back in somehow. So while the launcher is straightforward about the information, maybe a new and unique character selection screen could be given more power.

I've already commented elsewhere that whilst we won't be resurrecting the login screen to be expansion branded, we are looking into making the character selection screen more in line with a theme for each expansion.

Ruze wrote:
- CCP, let us select a character from the launcher, if we so desire, and that way we can happily skip and hop right into the game.

This probably won't happen. You're almost asking for duplicated work; choose characters from within the EVE Launcher, but also character switch in the EVE Client. If you switch characters in the EVE Client, why would we duplicate it when the EVE Launcher already handles this?

There's more discussion to be had on this point, but as I mentioned above, switching characters in the client is a large technical project.

Ruze wrote:
- CCP, thank you for the speed and reliability you've added to patching. SOME of us notice, and we love you for it.
Cool

Ruze wrote:
I'm not sure about launching multiple accounts on different screens simultaneously. I know some users wish to replace some third party programs, but since I don't need the functionality myself or use it, I'll let others plead.
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-06-25 14:55:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Makari Aeron
What I'm still wondering is why the login had to be in the launcher. If the login is HTML5 as I understand it, couldn't you (as in CCP) have imbedded the login in the client thus keeping the ease of access for multiboxers and using your SSO? At least from a moderately knowledgeable coder's standpoint, it is what I would have done to implement SSO. This would have avoided most of the complaints about the login being in the launcher and allowed for multiboxers to spam enter to open up enough clients. Then again, I am not privvy to the (background) code that exists in the client, server, and in between.

I would be interested to know why CCP didn't go his direction.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#32 - 2013-06-25 15:02:55 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
I would like easier character switching. Also GW2 has a very nice minimalist approach.

Big downloading bar would be nice, way to small. I like to see progress nit squint at it.


I do agree the download bar could be wider. On the other hand it doesn't need to take up half my screen like MWO or Blizzard's various implementations.

(Ok, Half my screen is probably an exaggeration, but some days it feels like it)

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#33 - 2013-06-25 15:14:36 UTC
I was going to troll this thread by suggestion that people should buy a Mac and enjoy that way the old launcher but the better part of me actually only wants to ask a question to the Dev, why did you launch the launcher (for PC) when it wasn't ready for prime time?

It is something we old and loyal customers see happen over and over again, something has been found 'good enuf we'll fix it later' like the inventory debacle, Incarna, this PC only launcher and you just rub people's hair the wrong way with this. It's just bad for business.

Why not release it when you have it A: in sync with the Mac launcher, B: fixed the loss of the epic login screen C: have most of the bugs worked out? There will be always bugs but this launcher far from ready to be launched.

So why? Straight

CCP must have some masochistic side somewhere, it's the only reason I can think of.
crymson Blade
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-06-25 15:29:08 UTC
I had a problem launching the game today but was able to fix it by doing this:

clicked on Microsoft logo and opened computer

double clicked on Hard disk drive

opened Program files (X86)

opened CCP folder

opened EVE folder

opened launcher folder

opened Cache folder

I saw a crescent wrench logo that said "updater" next to it so I clicked on it.

the login came up and loaded the update or patch and I was then able to log on to EVE

may not work for you but I thought I would post it.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#35 - 2013-06-25 15:46:02 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
we particularly wavered over the text feedback, and whether we wanted it more verbose (and in some cases overly technical) or less verbose and thus more of a progress indicator than anything else.


Why not both?

A short 3-6 word explanation for the computer illiterate. And a much more verbose explanation for the rest. Why? Because it is entirely possible that the problem is at my end. And if the error message is technical enough I can identify and fix the problem myself and get back to playing Eve post haste.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#36 - 2013-06-25 15:51:30 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Ruze wrote:
- CCP, please allow us to save our passwords in the launcher for each login. Okay, I understand that this opens more room for 'my cat logged in and destroyed my titan' petitions, but in all seriousness this really isn't your problem. Just give us a heavy handed message about strangers touching our pc's, and give us the option. Please.

We've had much the same thoughts and are working on this.


This absolutely MUST be an option. Some of us prefer security over convenience every time, every place.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Hessian Arcturus
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-06-25 15:54:39 UTC
I have absolutely no issue with the new launcher whatsoever. It does the job its supposed to... a) patches the game onto your computer b) logs you into the game (for me, this happens to also be quicker than the previous "without launcher").

I really don't undersyand why people are crying about something that has no effect on the way you play your game...

It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself.
Josef Djugashvilis
#38 - 2013-06-25 16:00:36 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
It would be good if you were able to throw the following into the comparisons: Borderlands 2, Diablo 3, (old) EVE Online, GuildWars 2, League of Legends, Mechwarrior Online, Planetside 2, Rift, Star Wars KOTR, Star Wars TOR, World Of Tanks and World Of Warcraft.

There are design issues in the EVE Launcher, and I will take your feedback into consideration, but that doesn't mean we're just going to pick one launcher and equate ourselves to it, and it alone. There are many different game launchers out there, of many varying styles, but there are little similarities between them all.


The launcher looks too cluttered and the stuff on it appears to have been just sort of dumped on it.

Make the launcher bigger and improve the layout.

Works well though - at least for me anyway.

This is not a signature.
Lydia Schmidt
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-06-25 16:12:44 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Ruze wrote:
- CCP, please allow us to save our passwords in the launcher for each login. Okay, I understand that this opens more room for 'my cat logged in and destroyed my titan' petitions, but in all seriousness this really isn't your problem. Just give us a heavy handed message about strangers touching our pc's, and give us the option. Please.

We've had much the same thoughts and are working on this.


Perhaps you can disabuse me of my misconceptions. As far as I understand it, the launcher gets some kind of single sign-on token whenever you successfully log in. Would it perhaps be possible to save these tokens for a session so that I can log in account A, login account B and then switch back to account A without having to retype the password for that session?

Or, if the passwords themselves were saved, I'd assume that they'd be encrypted with some sort of master password?
Moirae Nemesis
Kill All Ships In Style
#40 - 2013-06-25 16:15:37 UTC
oldskool here sorry in advance.

just to get it off my chest so we can move on. Loved the old expansion themed loginscreen. That was a core piece of eve online branding. A lot of money was in that brand. I smicker at companies throwing away corebrands. so ha haw to you sir.

right now i usually run two or three clients at the same time.
i want them to be easily separated in my taskbar (win7) so i have 3 different installations. this gives me 3 different shortcuts and as long as i always start same toons on same instances i can always quickly access the toon i need. even behind screens or when reading a browser. (i have 3 screens, i do a lot of stuff simultaneously).
if there is a function to do this with one installation and the eve online launcher in windows 7. i do not know of it. if others do please educate me.

i also feel that eve runs a lot faster when being run in several instances from different spots.

i would wish that the launcher could be able to create several different instances that are not grouped together in windows 7.
i wish there was 2-step authentication.
save the passwords and users of all my accounts (yes i have in the region of 10 or so).
the 2-step auth will take care of security. cat will not by accident log in and if a friend steals my stuff he was at my house and my baseball-bat can and will find him.

even make different customizable launch groups. "launch mains" "launch cyno alts" "launch w/e"
why not even identify the different eve instances with the face of the toon logged in down in the taskbar.
also add the feature to have different accounts in different places. not because it would be a mainstream feature but because it would be nice to be able to tell 1 launcher to keep my 3 different installations on 3 different SSDs up to date with 1 tool. and it would be really cool and ccp needs to go back to doing cool solutions too.

you are pressing the envelope with features that are cool in the gaming industry, most of your client base does not come directly from the gaming industry.
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