These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

EVE Launcher - a comparison

First post
Author
Sturmwolke
#1 - 2013-06-25 07:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Let me start by saying that I'm not a fan of the EVE Launcher - Odyssey edition.
It was a buggy (crap) bloatware when released, and even now its still bloatware which serves no real functional purpose except as an eyecandy marketing tool.

If CCP was truly honest in striving to improve game login functionality, please observe how players login into their forum account after Odyssey.
See the simple and minimalistic screen username and password? Yes, that's what I want.
(As for the alts issues, I'm sure you should already be working towards an acceptable solution after getting flak from players)

With those out of the way, allow me to do an objective comparison of EVE launcher vs another MMO's (aka World of Tanks/World of Warplanes) launcher.

1. Download

See picture - http://i.imgur.com/O0VuWlF.png


  • EVE launcher download status has 2 clashing statements - "Creating" and "Downloading". No such issue with WG's launcher. The message is clear.
  • The status bar for the EVE launcher is relatively small, looking like it's trying to hide. Why would you want to hide critical status information?
  • EVE launcher has no "Cancel" button. While it can be debatable why anyone would cancel an update, WG's implementation is more intuitive and user friendly.



2. When facing internet issue

See picture - http://i.imgur.com/T8lbEag.png


  • EVE launcher has a good error dialog box (which looks to be a recent change). Very good status message vs WG's cryptic "Critical Error".
  • Again, EVE launcher lacks a "Retry" button. This forces the player to close and relaunch the launcher ..... many times!


3. No internet connection

See picture - http://i.imgur.com/IsUWCij.png


  • EVE launcher has good messaging.
  • It's funny that NOW it actually has a link to "Restart Launcher", which in essence is a "Retry". (Wtf?)
  • Requiring a launcher restart is big negative. In contrast, WG's launcher you simpy click Retry for another attempt at contacting the update server.


4. Applying updates

See picture - http://i.imgur.com/kg06lNC.png


  • Not much to comment except that WG's launcher has higher granularity when describing the update stages.
  • Note how WG's launcher describes that stage as "Updating game client". This is a very clear message that tells the player what it's doing.


Let me end by dropping this (from a random Google) to get the message across .... yet again :

http://www.makinggoodsoftware.com/2010/03/02/robustness-the-forgotten-code-quality/
Tiven loves Tansien
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-06-25 07:19:26 UTC
This is a good thread.
Turelus
Utassi Security
#3 - 2013-06-25 08:25:41 UTC
Nice write up. I hope CCP take some thoughts from it.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#4 - 2013-06-25 08:38:43 UTC
Thank the Minmatar for duct-tape and 3rd party launchers (although doesn't bypass patching...)

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Eugene Spencer
Stribog Proving
#5 - 2013-06-25 08:51:36 UTC
This is really quite boring.

I have a specific comb for my beard.

Sarmatiko
#6 - 2013-06-25 08:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Strange comparison, really.
WoT launcher is, technically, an outdated piece of crap. Don't believe me? Then try to update live client to "public test" - you actually can't do this and you have to download whole client with different launcher. Also WOT launcher just downloads "patch" files (which are simple 7z archives) and then unpacks them overwriting client files.

On the contrary, EVE launcher works using zsync/rsync algorithm and you can update from any client state (outdated 2 years old client/ empty folder / broken files) to any build with available repair data.
So while EVE launcher needs some serious improvements in terms of usability and functionality, patching back-end tech is good enough to beat almost any other product in the market.
Sturmwolke
#7 - 2013-06-25 09:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Sarmatiko wrote:
Strange comparison, really.
So while EVE launcher needs some serious improvements in terms of usability, back-end tech is good enough to beat almost any other product in the market.

Not really. The biggest message I'm trying to knock into CCP's head is reliability and robustness.
The more complex you try to make it, the more breakable it is. Where do you stop?

I'm fairly aware of the ability to incrementally patch/repair the EVE client. Yes, it's a strong point but - with one catch.
It's easily breakable and it breaks too often.

The WG launcher may be simpler (in technical terms), but this is actually a good thing.
Their playerbase counts in the millions, therefore you get to see all sorts of software/hardware configurations.
Now, imagine putting an EVE like launcher after Odyssey .......
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#8 - 2013-06-25 09:19:58 UTC
No.

Simply NO.

It was useless until a bit before Odyssey was rolled in. before the launcher had the ability to log you in instead of having that only in the game client, it was useless. but now it's actually got a use.

whatever you're smoking, bro, it's killing your brain. do yourself a favor and go to rehab.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2013-06-25 10:38:45 UTC
It would be good if you were able to throw the following into the comparisons: Borderlands 2, Diablo 3, (old) EVE Online, GuildWars 2, League of Legends, Mechwarrior Online, Planetside 2, Rift, Star Wars KOTR, Star Wars TOR, World Of Tanks and World Of Warcraft.

There are design issues in the EVE Launcher, and I will take your feedback into consideration, but that doesn't mean we're just going to pick one launcher and equate ourselves to it, and it alone. There are many different game launchers out there, of many varying styles, but there are little similarities between them all.
0Lona 0ltor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-06-25 10:51:39 UTC
Bloatware? I've been sendin tickets to try get it listed as Malware Smile
Kamii Yo
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-06-25 10:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamii Yo
CCP Atropos wrote:
It would be good if you were able to throw the following into the comparisons: Borderlands 2, Diablo 3, (old) EVE Online, GuildWars 2, League of Legends, Mechwarrior Online, Planetside 2, Rift, Star Wars KOTR, Star Wars TOR, World Of Tanks and World Of Warcraft.

There are design issues in the EVE Launcher, and I will take your feedback into consideration, but that doesn't mean we're just going to pick one launcher and equate ourselves to it, and it alone. There are many different game launchers out there, of many varying styles, but there are little similarities between them all.



Well, maybe you should start comparing yourselves to what's out there - as the current standard and quality of this launcher is POOR. Maybe you shouldn't have touched what wasn't broken in the first place. Maybe its about time you do some research on it? The launcher will be compared to some of the best (as it should be). What you have produced is one of the worst launchers I have ever used. The reasons behind changing the launcher still aren't very clear either.

Get it together, seriously.

Edit: (and by the way, as the "Product Owner" of the Launcher - you should accept criticism rather than get all defensive as you have done. The OP is clearly only trying to help. This is probably why the launcher is the biggest fail for some years)
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#12 - 2013-06-25 11:15:30 UTC
Kamii Yo wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
It would be good if you were able to throw the following into the comparisons: Borderlands 2, Diablo 3, (old) EVE Online, GuildWars 2, League of Legends, Mechwarrior Online, Planetside 2, Rift, Star Wars KOTR, Star Wars TOR, World Of Tanks and World Of Warcraft.

There are design issues in the EVE Launcher, and I will take your feedback into consideration, but that doesn't mean we're just going to pick one launcher and equate ourselves to it, and it alone. There are many different game launchers out there, of many varying styles, but there are little similarities between them all.



Well, maybe you should start comparing yourselves to what's out there - as the current standard and quality of this launcher is POOR. Maybe you shouldn't have touched what wasn't broken in the first place...... -> "I have no idea what I'm talking about")

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2013-06-25 11:22:33 UTC
Kamii Yo, I did say I was taking his feedback into consideration so I don't see how you can say I'm not accepting criticism on it. I welcome all this and all the other feedback we've been getting; having players passionate enough to provide this feedback and not just walk away is what I love about EVE players.

Equating yourself to one launcher doesn't make things magically better or worse, it just means you're mimicking a particular product. Sturmwolke has provided a number of good comparisons between the World Of Tanks/World Of Warplanes launchers and the EVE Launcher, some of which we ourselves have run into: we particularly wavered over the text feedback, and whether we wanted it more verbose (and in some cases overly technical) or less verbose and thus more of a progress indicator than anything else.

The feedback and any actions we take based upon it has to be balanced against other industry behemoths, who basically set the trend for how launchers are handled in the industry; Blizzard's Diablo 3 and World Of Warcraft launchers are a good example of this. They cater to many millions of players, but in my mind are too busy and fussy.
Hoshi Takasu
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2013-06-25 11:26:45 UTC
Change your eve shortcut to point to the "ExeFile.exe" in the "bin" folder in your eve folder. This bypasses the launcher when there's no patches and allows you to use the old login screen which is much faster and easier to use.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#15 - 2013-06-25 11:27:34 UTC
I think CCP should work towards switching characters and possibly accounts without relogging, its a real pain in the ass.
Also is it just me, or after the odyssey there isnt "restart" button ingame anymore, meaning when I want to switch character, I need to quit eve client first and the go throught launcher again manually? Previously it was easier, or maybe I am missing something?
Also the whole launcher concept seems redundant to me, eve was updating itself very well even before launcher.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2013-06-25 11:30:24 UTC
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I think CCP should work towards switching characters and possibly accounts without relogging, its a real pain in the ass.
Also is it just me, or after the odyssey there isnt "restart" button ingame anymore, meaning when I want to switch character, I need to quit eve client first and the go throught launcher again manually? Previously it was easier, or maybe I am missing something?
Also the whole launcher concept seems redundant to me, eve was updating itself very well even before launcher.

If you close the EVE Launcher after logging in, yes it does require you to reauthenticate. If you leave it open and logged in on the account you want to switch characters with though, it's easy to change characters by simply clicking 'play' again.
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#17 - 2013-06-25 11:30:58 UTC
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I think CCP should work towards switching characters and possibly accounts without relogging, its a real pain in the ass.
Also is it just me, or after the odyssey there isnt "restart" button ingame anymore, meaning when I want to switch character, I need to quit eve client first and the go throught launcher again manually? Previously it was easier, or maybe I am missing something?
Also the whole launcher concept seems redundant to me, eve was updating itself very well even before launcher.



Use the actual eve.exe file; You can switch toon's much faster that way. Also, when launched from the exe, the restart button works.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#18 - 2013-06-25 11:37:36 UTC
Thanks for replies!
... I dont like to have launcher open all the times tho and I also dont feel like running straight from .exe file, as sometimes I need to install update anyway and I feel sorta like bypassing part of the game. Which even when making it easier, it should be a signal for developers to code it the way players dont have to bypass some parts of it Smile
Hoshi Takasu
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2013-06-25 11:39:35 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Zakarumit CZ wrote:
I think CCP should work towards switching characters and possibly accounts without relogging, its a real pain in the ass.
Also is it just me, or after the odyssey there isnt "restart" button ingame anymore, meaning when I want to switch character, I need to quit eve client first and the go throught launcher again manually? Previously it was easier, or maybe I am missing something?
Also the whole launcher concept seems redundant to me, eve was updating itself very well even before launcher.

If you close the EVE Launcher after logging in, yes it does require you to reauthenticate. If you leave it open and logged in on the account you want to switch characters with though, it's easy to change characters by simply clicking 'play' again.


It would be nice if i could get the launcher to remember & automatically log on to all accounts i own and then allow me to select a character on any of these accounts that i want to log onto. Plus then it would actually offer functionality the launch screen cant.
Sarmatiko
#20 - 2013-06-25 11:44:01 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:

The WG launcher may be simpler (in technical terms), but this is actually a good thing.
Their playerbase counts in the millions, therefore you get to see all sorts of software/hardware configurations.
Now, imagine putting an EVE like launcher after Odyssey .......

Yes, their launcher made with one simple assumption that most of the playerbase are brainless idiots (and any SerB answer session proves this every time). This works perfectly in WoT, but do you really want to be threated like this in EVE?

123Next page