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Hybrid rebalance - market effects?

First post
Author
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#41 - 2011-10-31 00:55:52 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Let's take a look at the Catalyst (the Gallente destroyer).


Both the destroyer buff, the hybrid buff, the gallente hybrid ship buff and the proposed AF buff all points to higher consumption of T2 hybrids. As for the Catalyst itself, demand might very well go up, but I dont see that resulting in much higher price. T1 production is so accessible that the market adjustment doesnt take long.

Conclusion: Even if demand spikes, the catalyst price will vary with the mineral basket.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#42 - 2011-10-31 01:13:17 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Let's take a look at the Catalyst (the Gallente destroyer).


Both the destroyer buff, the hybrid buff, the gallente hybrid ship buff and the proposed AF buff all points to higher consumption of T2 hybrids. As for the Catalyst itself, demand might very well go up, but I dont see that resulting in much higher price. T1 production is so accessible that the market adjustment doesnt take long.

Conclusion: Even if demand spikes, the catalyst price will vary with the mineral basket.

Agreed. I'd expect demand to increase, but not the price, since it does not require much to build these things.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#43 - 2011-10-31 10:08:06 UTC
Taking a look at the SL regional market for this past week, several of the T2 hybrid guns - blasters and railguns - are showing sharp rises in price - as predicted by several posters. Some guns, however, experienced price drops, indicating that players may be dumping existing inventory, perhaps expecting less of a market for those particular guns after the launch of the Winter Expansion.

The Reinforced Rolled Tungsten armor plates are also showing a steep rise in price.

However, most of the price rises - in guns and plates - are marked by a sharp quantity bought/sold spike, which is fairly indicative of market manipulation/speculation, rather than a sustainable trend.

BTW - this is just my version of a bump, to keep this thread on the first page of MD.... :)
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-10-31 13:05:50 UTC
Quote:

Finally, the Phobos sells for about 190 million, which again about equals efficient inventionbased production cost. Increased demand could increase price somewhat but not much more than 5-10 million.


This isn't too surprising since no BPO for the Phobos exists.

One factor that may come into play is that increased demand for Gallente t2 contruction components. As it stands, the various racial production components are reasonably equal in price even though Gallente hulls are unpopular at best. It seems obvious that Exhumer construction is keeping the demand at the level it's at and if Gallente tech II hulls are actually becoming flyable there might be a (temporary?) spike in construction components.
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-10-31 16:59:29 UTC
The price for the Vindicator (a faction bs with hybrid guns) should rise at least with 20% because of the immense damage bonus for this ship.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#46 - 2011-10-31 18:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Well the latest devblog from CCP Tallest confirms the leak posted in the OP. Most comments still seem positive, although some are still concerned about the viability of rails compared to artillery (alpha) and beam lasers (damage).
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#47 - 2011-10-31 18:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tekota
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Well the latest devblog from CCP Tallest confirms the leak posted in the OP. Most comments still seem positive, although some are still concerned about the viability of rails compared to artillery (alpha) and beam lasers (damage).


Indeed, and confirmation that the feared 5 per cent agility nerf is actually a 5 per cent agility buff.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#48 - 2011-10-31 20:39:41 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Most comments still seem positive, although some are still concerned about the viability of rails compared to artillery (alpha) and beam lasers (damage).

Yeah, but that's probably because most of them have not run the new numbers through EFT. The new fitting reqs allow the use of a higher grade of gun, on most ships, which is equivalent to a major boost to damage of rails (upwards around 50%).

Compared to lasers, rails have greater range, and do thermal/kinetic damage - one or the other of which is usually the second lowest resist on any ship, shield or armor tanked, and the least likely to be plugged by a resist mod. Also, the cap advantage of hybrids over lasers has been significantly increased.

Compared to artillery, rails have greater DPS (even more now), and, with the 30% reduced cap usage for hybrids, the capless advantage of projectiles has been signifcantly reduced.

I really think that the greatest disadvantages of rails are the unimpressive graphics and sound effects. Looks and sounds like a popgun, compared to the other weapons.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#49 - 2011-11-01 23:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
The new build confirms some balancing changes to the new Tier 3 BCs:

The ships will be even thinner (less HP across the board), but more agile. The Talos also faster. All ships will have tighter CPU, the Naga and Talos also less PG.

The Talos looses dronebay and webbonus, gets tracking bonus.

The Oracle looses range and trackingbonus, gets damage and cap usagebonus

The Naga looses a lowslot, hybrid tracking and torpedo explosion velocity bonus and stand with one bonus per weapon system - hybrid range and torpedo velocity, and 3 lowslots bringing it in line with the other 3.

In addition: All ships formely listed with agility nerfs recives (the correct) agility buff
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#50 - 2011-11-08 05:48:38 UTC
Hybrid rebalance market speculation is definitely on!

All market orders of Electromagnetic Physics datacores have been bought up, and put back up on market at 200-300% markup, in Gallente and Minmatar high sec regions (not sure about Caldari and Amarr high sec regions - I don't go there much these days).

Electromagnetic Physics datacores are required for invention of T2 hybrid guns and rigs.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#51 - 2011-11-08 09:43:22 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Hybrid rebalance market speculation is definitely on!

All market orders of Electromagnetic Physics datacores have been bought up, and put back up on market at 200-300% markup, in Gallente and Minmatar high sec regions (not sure about Caldari and Amarr high sec regions - I don't go there much these days).

Electromagnetic Physics datacores are required for invention of T2 hybrid guns and rigs.



They are also required to invent the new T2 gangmods :)
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#52 - 2011-11-08 11:27:53 UTC
Nomad I wrote:
The price for the Vindicator (a faction bs with hybrid guns) should rise at least with 20% because of the immense damage bonus for this ship.


It will be a temporary rise as the ship itself is already in the 1 billion ISK threshold.

Maybe an 6-8 week spike to 1.2 billion but sooner then later competition will just destroy each other as there are certainly more ships in the game then actual players, while losses will be replaced with blueprints at the same increased pace.

When I just started playing the game, I also noticed that blasters where just striking with their falloff bonus being so low that I thought, I would never want to fly anything gallante.

The gallante are also supposedly getting a nerf at the same time, little do you know about the drone nerfing for carriers, this I believe is very wrong, as "Fighters" should not be nerfed in a way where they WONT be able to hit frigates, but instead buffed into actual fighters to take down small targets and bombers alike, while being easy to take out of the battlefield.

As for frigates, The caldari covert ops frigates are a little infamous secret, known for being "Awesome" the Agility nerf for caldari will actually Hurt these already badly hurting ships due to changes in play style, I.E. missile fleets are becoming projectile and lazor fleets.

As for the dramiel getting nerfed:
I think this is wrong on some levels, now now settle down let me explain.

The dramiel was created to be the fastest ship around, align time and all the good stuff, but this does not Justify nerfing exactly those particular things about the dramiel.
What SHOULD be nerfed, is its ability to blow gatecamps and blockades almost 100% of the time, carrying very costly faction goods from nulsec to High-Sec, This should be the focus and this is where the only tears could have come from.

I DO NOT agree with the movement to Newter the Dramiel's fun factor, Instead make it so that it cannot blockade run 10-20 billion ISK loads past every single bubble wielding gatecamp 100% OF THE TIME.

Im hearing from several sources that there are rail fits with proposed stats that will do over 300 DPS from ranges exceeding 200KM?
Nerf GATECAMPS, or else nulsec will be a nomads land.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#53 - 2011-11-08 19:01:17 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
[quote=Nomad I]
When I just started playing the game, I also noticed that blasters where just striking with their falloff bonus being so low that I thought, I would never want to fly anything gallante.

The gallante are also supposedly getting a nerf at the same time, little do you know about the drone nerfing for carriers, this I believe is very wrong, as "Fighters" should not be nerfed in a way where they WONT be able to hit frigates, but instead buffed into actual fighters to take down small targets and bombers alike, while being easy to take out of the battlefield.

As for frigates, The caldari covert ops frigates are a little infamous secret, known for being "Awesome" the Agility nerf for caldari will actually Hurt these already badly hurting ships due to changes in play style, I.E. missile fleets are becoming projectile and lazor fleets.

As for the dramiel getting nerfed:
I think this is wrong on some levels, now now settle down let me explain.

The dramiel was created to be the fastest ship around, align time and all the good stuff, but this does not Justify nerfing exactly those particular things about the dramiel.
What SHOULD be nerfed, is its ability to blow gatecamps and blockades almost 100% of the time, carrying very costly faction goods from nulsec to High-Sec, This should be the focus and this is where the only tears could have come from.

I DO NOT agree with the movement to Newter the Dramiel's fun factor, Instead make it so that it cannot blockade run 10-20 billion ISK loads past every single bubble wielding gatecamp 100% OF THE TIME.

Im hearing from several sources that there are rail fits with proposed stats that will do over 300 DPS from ranges exceeding 200KM?
Nerf GATECAMPS, or else nulsec will be a nomads land.

Umm... this is probably the wrong thread for these issues. You might want to consider copying and posting them over in Ships & Modules.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#54 - 2011-11-12 14:16:24 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
As for the dramiel getting nerfed:
I think this is wrong on some levels, now now settle down let me explain.

The dramiel was created to be the fastest ship around, align time and all the good stuff, but this does not Justify nerfing exactly those particular things about the dramiel.
What SHOULD be nerfed, is its ability to blow gatecamps and blockades almost 100% of the time, carrying very costly faction goods from nulsec to High-Sec, This should be the focus and this is where the only tears could have come from.

I DO NOT agree with the movement to Newter the Dramiel's fun factor, Instead make it so that it cannot blockade run 10-20 billion ISK loads past every single bubble wielding gatecamp 100% OF THE TIME.

Im hearing from several sources that there are rail fits with proposed stats that will do over 300 DPS from ranges exceeding 200KM?
Nerf GATECAMPS, or else nulsec will be a nomads land.

Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Dramiels running 20-billion-ISK loads out of null through gate camps? I guess jump drives haven't been invented yet. Maybe you should ask CCP to remove the Dramiel's interdiction nullifier subsystem and its massive buffer tank, eh?

The nerf was definitely needed, though is probably going to be a bit heavy-handed. For the most part, Angel and Serpentis ships are going to become even bigger FsOTM. Half a billion for a Vigilant, anyone?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

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