Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I believe this has come up before, and the answer was that it would require reworking of all the warp code.

Are you maybe thinking of stacking penalties?

Woot! Everyone can get behind this idea!



K, I like where this is going because really, with the change made that you don't need the racial frigate skill prior to training up a racial industrial, any "inequality" really isn't at such a scale as to be a concern.


I have a slight issue here. I know why CCP wants to have every race to have a Fast/Tanky hauler and a heavy cargo hauler, mainly because it justifies the Tech 2 versions and their roles. The problem is that you really don't need that justification and in the case of making industrials more unique, it really gets in the way. All you really need for each race is a heavy hauler. Outside of that, feel free to take the other racial hauler and give it some of its own uses. (*cough* I heard the blog 2nd Anomaly from the Left has a few thoughts *cough*). The benefit of doing that is that the basics are covered, plus each race will have a unique Tech 1 hauler that people will want to cross-train for.

Oh, and before I forget, thank you for doing the hard work to get this right. As a player of Eve Online for 7+ years, it makes me want to keep playing.

You think 25x the cargo room of a T1 is too big for a freighter?? :P

I think the larger glaring issue is that the Orca, which, again, is a mining support ship, does the job better than specialized haulers. DSTs are left in obscurity as Orcas fill up the spacelanes with their capacious generic cargo bay, their ship maintenance bay and their ore hold. Again, I ask myself why this mining support ship does the job--in a much quicker timeframe now--than specialized ships....hauling ships, no less, that pilots spend their time training into. I'm not talking about freighters, which, while taking more time to train, again, than said Orca, do their job fairly well with the sizable cargo bays they have, although they could probably stand to have a mild ehp buff now that tier 3 BCs can make ganks so much less expensive than a proper fleet of BSs. That, or just add a low slow so those freighter captains can decide between cargo expander, DCU, nano, Istab, etc.

Maybe the Orca's general cargo bay needs to be nerfed; I think it'd be too soon to make that determination considering that we don't know what future industrial changes Rise hinted at are coming down the pipe. I'm hoping that they're planning a few more ships to the ORE Industrial line that perform similarly to a Noctis, in that it's very good in one aspect of industry. But who can say for sure?

What we can say is that DSTs are broken, the Orca does a better job than most haulers, is significantly cheaper than a freighter, and can carry assembled ships with stupidly high EHP numbers.

counting the orca, rorqual and jump freighters, the void is not that big. Altough I wish there was a cheaper alternative for the jump freighter.

A ship carrying this amount would probably better served at the T2 line with any upcoming DST changes. Actually, though, if any new Industrial ships are in the works, I'd love to see ORE Industrials added that specialize in assembled ship hauling, salvage loot, etc., depending, of course, with how the T1 changes pan out.

I would like to see an ORE Strategic Industrial With subsystem like expansions so you can customize your industrial ship.
These subsystems would give the hull all of its ship and skill bonuses.
This would allow the player to fit bonuses and that would free up module spots for interesting load outs.

Just my thoughts.

I think large haulers are a fundamentally bad idea. Rapid movement of large volumes of goods results in the development of One Big Hub at the cost of smaller sub-hubs, which not only hinders new players from competing in market trading and industry as easily because this single hub is more easily dominated by fewer players, but also results in the depopulation of outlying highsec areas and the migration of players into a single region, with unfortunate consequences for hamsters and cumulative greater dependence on the single hub.

Obviously doing this overnight would cause economic chaos, so some sort of system of gradually reducing cargohold size would be necessary. Also, none of this will happen.

I guess it's not really a T1 idea, but the regular haulers have always bothered me a little in the implementation. Essentially, they're all the same, with a different skin. You always put cargo expanders in, and otherwise, they pretty much all end up looking very similar, but for the skin.

Leave a broken system alone, IMO. Since getting rid of all t he haulers would be problematic.

Someone in one of the previous topics mentioned subsystems, which IMO, would lend itself to truly configurable and distinct industrial haulers.

You can do what you like with the other subsystems, and I mean weapons, propulsion, et al. What I'm concerned with is the mechanicals, the one that gives you cargo cap and the like. Here are some ideas I had.

Collier subsystem: minimal general storage, zero ore, and but a special bay that can store ammo types only, that can be accessed while in space, like opening a can.

Security subsystem: no ore storage, no other specialized storage, relatively small general storage that self destructs on ship destruction leaving nothing in the bay as loot.

Mining subsystem: Nuff said. No general storage, or very little, and large ore/ice/gas storage

Hauler subsystem: No ore storage (I mean disallow type, ore in this bay), and good sized general storage.

And so on.


Also, to mitigate the hyper optimization, give the subsystems a x0 bonus to all hull expansion fittings in the low slots.

Additionally, you could think of making the other subsystems affect your storage, for instance, your gunnery/high slot subs might halve the bay space in favour of weapons. Or your propulsion sub might give a penalty in favour of more speed.

So, you could have fast, armed, high security haulers with small cargo, or make it medium cargo to lose the speed or guns. Etc.

I think CCP went at the Industrial ships in a lackadaisical fashion. It's like they went 'oh well, they just haul stuff, give them big bays and no slots, no one will care because everyone hates industrials'.

The framework exists to make industrials really interesting, and flexible, but I don't see how nerfing and tweaking what you have is going to get you there. IMO, you're going to have to put in something better that works and get people to pretty much stop using the old crappy stuff.

Ellie

while we're reminding each other of things. can i remind every one what happened to the last non combat focused ship type that was rebalanced because "only one ship was worth using"? the situation didn't change, the crown was merely passed.

as is the case here with regard to high volume haulers.