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They already stated that they don't want explosion velocity because it makes hitting smaller ships easier. How much worse would explosion radius be? MUCH.

And a 25% ROF bonus would give it an absolutely hideous advantage over current Ravens; in an ideal situation, which is more common than you'd think, this means a properly fit and supported Naga could put out something like 1660 DPS with rage torpedoes alone, overheated. That's the same exact damage projection as the Raven State Issue.

I like the small bonus to explosion velocity best, and I don't think that it was overpowered or would give the Naga much of an advantage against smaller targets.

People who are whining about the new BCs being fast are dumb-- these ships have seriously minimal tank-- without speed they'd die incredibly quickly. They're going to be fairly dangerous to cruisers. Hint-- fight them with small ships (frigs) or big ships (battleships). Frigs can rip them to bits with impunity (lol large gun tracking) provided their pilots aren't completely ******** (ie, lights MWD, burns directly at BC with zero transversal) and any real battleship (think pulse apoc) will force one of these ships off in 2-3 volleys. At one point while testing on sisi I warped into a combat beacon at range and had a daredevil land on top of me a second later. He literally soloed my Tornado. These ships are not impossible to counter, you baddies.

This.

The Tornado will probably be nerfed back to 5-7.5 percent falloff per level, I'd be fine with that; I hope the Naga gets its bonus back, too.

I can't make heads or tails of a single goddamned word of this. What are you trying to say?

Well that is the inherent problem in designing ships for a specific narrow role. Instead of designing 4 good ships you design a role and make 4 racial variants of that. One of them(with luck 2) will always be the best at it and the rest can be pretty much ignored. Since this time the designed role relies heavily on minmatar strengths, it's natural that minmatar is one of the better choices. I'm not saying it doesn't need some tweaking, but it's unlikely to change the outcome, since the role naturally favors them.

I have another option for the new ships. Make them T2 Heavy Stealth Bombers. They all use Torps with velocity bonus and covert cloaky!

That's a very good summary of the issue with the Naga.

But I think that, much like the Talos is bad because hybrids are broken, the Naga is bad because torps are a little bit broken too.
If you look at large guns, they have a 400m signature resolution. Why do torps have 450m ??
As your number indicate, you need a web AND a painter to do full damage to some battleships… This should not be: as much as blasters should be the highest close-range damage turrets, torpedoes should be the highest damaging weapons to battleships.

Slightly reducing the torp explosion radius (400m for normal, 500 for rage, mayber 350 for javelin) would give a working role for the Naga AND fiixing the Raven for PVP at the same time.

You would still need either a web (close range, big effect) or a painter (long range, medium effect) to do full damage, but not both, as it should be !

Well, let's ignore rage torpedoes since most T2 short range ammo sucks anyway (with rage torps you get around a 25, 30% or more damage reduction if the target battleship is standing completely still...) and let's take a look at how torpedoes would fare against battlecruisers...

I'm using a spreadsheet set up with stafen's formula, so I won't include details, just the final results. Calcs are done with lvl 5 skill in mind, both on the target and on the attacker using no mods (don't want to look at umpteen diffent fits)

Harbinger, Prophecy: -64% damage
Ferox, Drake: -59% damage
Brutix, Myrmidon: -59% damage
Cyclone, Hurricane: (unsurprisingly) - 70% damage

I don't have T3 data handy, but since the signature is around the same but the speed is quite higher, the numbers would be even worse than these. With common mods the caldari ships would probably take the lead in damage taken, with gallente not far behind due to higher base signature. Minmatar ships will probably take even less damage than this due to the common use of speed mods (and in truth I doubt a Naga would actually be able to catch a minmatar BC, but that is another issue).

Even with a lvl 5 skilled Target Painter II we are speaking of a 50% reduction in damage on average, with no ability whatsoever to hit smaller classes in any meaningful way.

With a boost in damage (if they don't want us to hit smaller classes of ships), they could be ALMOST on par with other weapon systems, except for the AutoCannons, which track even smaller targets WAY too easily.

There are also issues with the ship itself: the Naga suffers from the low speed problem of gallente blasterboats, with the added problem of having the slowest base speed and (I think) worst mass/agility modifiers. Sure, we don't get mass addictions from plates, but we still start in a much worse position than the gallente to begin with.

So, the Naga needs a lot of work. I doubt close range caldari are ever going to work, there are simply much better competitors... At least give Caldari ships a strong advantage on range. And I don't mean MORE range, which is useless.

That's exactly what I've been saying. I was just trying to make people realize that balancing the Talos as a ship won't work if the underlying problems with hybrids, be they caused by the guns or the ships, will not work.