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jita is closed every day to europe prime time... make a mirror jita

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RAW23
#61 - 2013-06-24 14:37:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Stuff.


So whats wrong with working out of new caldari?


Nothing. As I said above, that is the correct workaround to the Jita capacity problem. The stuff about going to a different hub is not.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2013-06-24 14:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
RAW23 wrote:


Nothing. As I said above, that is the correct workaround to the Jita capacity problem. The stuff about going to a different hub is not.


Given that you can do just about everything you can do in jita from one of the other hubs I would say that it is a perfectly good workaround.
RAW23
#63 - 2013-06-24 14:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


Nothing. As I said above, that is the correct workaround to the Jita capacity problem. The stuff about going to a different hub is not.


Given that you can do just about everything you can do in jita from one of the other hubs I would say that it is a perfectly good workaround.


Yeah - except as I just explained, that's not true at all. Feel free to keep repeating it if it makes you feel better though.

Edit - This thread is great! Full of people who don't have a clue about trade and industry in eve making startlingly inaccurate assertions. It's just like the nullsec threads full of clueless highsec players except in this case it seems to be largely nullsec players talking from a position of profound ignorance.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#64 - 2013-06-24 14:58:23 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


They are fine if you want to do something other than the specific types of trading that you can only do in Jita. But if you want to play those particular games (e.g. high volume swing trading on raw materials or fighting 0.01 wars for significant market segments) you just can't do them elsewhere. If you want to be a trader then you go to where the appropriate market is. You can't just head off somewhere else and expect the market to come to you. It's the same with fleet fights - they take place at specific locations and if you want to take part you have to be where the fight is. You can't just go to another system of your choosing and still expect to be involved.


So what exactly isnt in Amarr?


a) volume - if I remember correctly, the Amarr market has only about 15% of the volume of the Jita market. The volume in Jita is more than double the other market hubs combined and changes in Jita cause changes in the other hubs.



The more people that go there, the quicker this will change.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
RAW23
#65 - 2013-06-24 15:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
Malcanis wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


They are fine if you want to do something other than the specific types of trading that you can only do in Jita. But if you want to play those particular games (e.g. high volume swing trading on raw materials or fighting 0.01 wars for significant market segments) you just can't do them elsewhere. If you want to be a trader then you go to where the appropriate market is. You can't just head off somewhere else and expect the market to come to you. It's the same with fleet fights - they take place at specific locations and if you want to take part you have to be where the fight is. You can't just go to another system of your choosing and still expect to be involved.


So what exactly isnt in Amarr?


a) volume - if I remember correctly, the Amarr market has only about 15% of the volume of the Jita market. The volume in Jita is more than double the other market hubs combined and changes in Jita cause changes in the other hubs.



The more people that go there, the quicker this will change.


It's a chicken and egg situation, though. Why would anyone go there until it changes? They would be shooting themselves in the foot. Apart from the minor inconvenience of player loads in Jita there is really no economic motivation for a Jita trader to move elsewhere and expecting people to make unmotivated changes is wishful thinking.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-06-24 15:03:10 UTC
Spiky Hican wrote:
Basically, the Jita situation is player caused, we decided that Jita 4-4 CNAP is the market hub, and it's become so successful that it's overloaded.

There's nothing much that can be done about it, it's already running on the best hardware they've got, and unfortunately the only solution is to move your stuff and sell it elsewhere.

Any system that handles as much server load traffic as Jita will have the same problem. There is no perfect solution, just keep spamming the buttons to either jump into system, or let you log in.

Well not really true nothing can be done. They could make trade hubs accessabile remotely or some similiar fix with maybe higher taxes for cost of remote delivery or lowered taxes for none trade hubs.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Eri Sato
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-06-24 15:06:04 UTC
Surely, in an environment such as EVE where markets fluctuate due to player actions, then OP's simple solution is to create a new trading centre.

But no to instancing. People don't live in different instances in the real world.

Jita is THE trading hub. If you can't get in quickly then that just enhances the realism. Like haulers from the UK going to Europe on deliveries. Sometimes the ferries are full, sometimes there's industrial action. Those examples can close ports and delay journeys. But that's just the nature of the business of trading and haulage.

So get used to it, adapt, or find another profession :)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2013-06-24 15:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
RAW23 wrote:


Yeah - except as I just explained, that's not true at all. Feel free to keep repeating it if it makes you feel better though.

Edit - This thread is great! Full of people who don't have a clue about trade and industry in eve making startlingly inaccurate assertions. It's just like the nullsec threads full of clueless highsec players except in this case it seems to be largely nullsec players talking from a position of profound ignorance.


I know right?

Its like, just because one or two items may not be sold in great numbers in Amarr it must mean that everything else sucks and you wont ever get anything done! Everyone should just dogpile jita because thats the only place you will find rare things like minerals and mods to put on your ship.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2013-06-24 15:18:02 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


They are fine if you want to do something other than the specific types of trading that you can only do in Jita. But if you want to play those particular games (e.g. high volume swing trading on raw materials or fighting 0.01 wars for significant market segments) you just can't do them elsewhere. If you want to be a trader then you go to where the appropriate market is. You can't just head off somewhere else and expect the market to come to you. It's the same with fleet fights - they take place at specific locations and if you want to take part you have to be where the fight is. You can't just go to another system of your choosing and still expect to be involved.


So what exactly isnt in Amarr?


a) volume - if I remember correctly, the Amarr market has only about 15% of the volume of the Jita market. The volume in Jita is more than double the other market hubs combined and changes in Jita cause changes in the other hubs.



The more people that go there, the quicker this will change.


It's a chicken and egg situation, though. Why would anyone go there until it changes? They would be shooting themselves in the foot. Apart from the minor inconvenience of player loads in Jita there is really no economic motivation for a Jita trader to move elsewhere and expecting people to make unmotivated changes is wishful thinking.


The solution is buy orders.

Place them and they will come.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
RAW23
#70 - 2013-06-24 15:41:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


Yeah - except as I just explained, that's not true at all. Feel free to keep repeating it if it makes you feel better though.

Edit - This thread is great! Full of people who don't have a clue about trade and industry in eve making startlingly inaccurate assertions. It's just like the nullsec threads full of clueless highsec players except in this case it seems to be largely nullsec players talking from a position of profound ignorance.


I know right?

Its like, just because one or two items may not be sold in great numbers in Amarr it must mean that everything else sucks and you wont ever get anything done! Everyone should just dogpile jita because thats the only place you will find rare things like minerals and mods to put on your ship.


No-one said that everything in Amarr sucks. I quite clearly said that it is ideal for certain types of traders. But the absence of significant amounts of moon products is not trivial. It is not just a case of one or two items being missing from Amarr; rather it means that you simply cannot base yourself in Amarr if you want to be a significant player in large sectors of the economy. At the most fundamental level, if you want to trade large volumes of commodities Jita is the only place you can do it. But there are then knock on effects from this: because the moon minerals are there, anyone who wants to do T2 reactions but doesn't have their own supply has to buy these mats in Jita. And since they buy their mats there they will also, naturally, sell their finished product there for the sake of efficiency. And because the bulk of reactions and T2 comps are in Jita people will tend to build T2 in the proximity of Jita and place their built ships and equipment on the market there. So anyone who wants to trade in high volumes of any of these items needs to be in Jita to do so. This is also where most of the stuff sold in Amarr comes from, so the trader who wants to ship large quantities out to the regions also, by definition, has to operate from Jita and not in one of the regional hubs.

This is just one of many examples. Amarr simply isn't a substitute for Jita and nor is any other regional hub because they are not the home for many types of economic activities.

I'll leave you to figure the rest out. I'm pretty sure I'm already being trolled on this because I find it hard to believe that anyone who persists in stating their opinion could be quite that ignorant about the topic they are talking about. But just in case you genuinely need your hand held as you dip your toe in the basics of the game economy why don't you log in to some of the ingame trade chat channels and provide yourself with an education.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
RAW23
#71 - 2013-06-24 15:46:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

The solution is buy orders.

Place them and they will come.


Sure. If you place sufficiently attractive buy orders people will go out of their way to fill them. The question is why would a trader tie up their isk doing this? I agree that with enough time, money and effort a reasonable portion of Jita's trade could be moved out of Jita. But since this expenditure will have a negative financial effect on those who do this it's not clear why anyone would make this effort. Certainly no-one who has the capability has yet been sufficiently motivated to do so (although there is normally a 'Let's move Jita' thread in MD every couple of months or so).

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Rogue Drone Recovery Syndicate
#72 - 2013-06-24 16:18:16 UTC
best solution to jita problems make it so jita can be destroyed. problem solved no more botters.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2013-06-24 17:13:00 UTC
RAW23 wrote:


No-one said that everything in Amarr sucks. I quite clearly said that it is ideal for certain types of traders. But the absence of significant amounts of moon products is not trivial. It is not just a case of one or two items being missing from Amarr; rather it means that you simply cannot base yourself in Amarr if you want to be a significant player in large sectors of the economy. At the most fundamental level, if you want to trade large volumes of commodities Jita is the only place you can do it. But there are then knock on effects from this: because the moon minerals are there, anyone who wants to do T2 reactions but doesn't have their own supply has to buy these mats in Jita. And since they buy their mats there they will also, naturally, sell their finished product there for the sake of efficiency. And because the bulk of reactions and T2 comps are in Jita people will tend to build T2 in the proximity of Jita and place their built ships and equipment on the market there. So anyone who wants to trade in high volumes of any of these items needs to be in Jita to do so. This is also where most of the stuff sold in Amarr comes from, so the trader who wants to ship large quantities out to the regions also, by definition, has to operate from Jita and not in one of the regional hubs.

This is just one of many examples. Amarr simply isn't a substitute for Jita and nor is any other regional hub because they are not the home for many types of economic activities.

I'll leave you to figure the rest out. I'm pretty sure I'm already being trolled on this because I find it hard to believe that anyone who persists in stating their opinion could be quite that ignorant about the topic they are talking about. But just in case you genuinely need your hand held as you dip your toe in the basics of the game economy why don't you log in to some of the ingame trade chat channels and provide yourself with an education.


Or they can set up buy orders over several systems outside of Jita (like say amarr), build the stuff and ship it out to markets such as B-D, faction warfare hubs, near big staging systems and make more isk than just sticking to jita.
RAW23
#74 - 2013-06-24 17:17:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


No-one said that everything in Amarr sucks. I quite clearly said that it is ideal for certain types of traders. But the absence of significant amounts of moon products is not trivial. It is not just a case of one or two items being missing from Amarr; rather it means that you simply cannot base yourself in Amarr if you want to be a significant player in large sectors of the economy. At the most fundamental level, if you want to trade large volumes of commodities Jita is the only place you can do it. But there are then knock on effects from this: because the moon minerals are there, anyone who wants to do T2 reactions but doesn't have their own supply has to buy these mats in Jita. And since they buy their mats there they will also, naturally, sell their finished product there for the sake of efficiency. And because the bulk of reactions and T2 comps are in Jita people will tend to build T2 in the proximity of Jita and place their built ships and equipment on the market there. So anyone who wants to trade in high volumes of any of these items needs to be in Jita to do so. This is also where most of the stuff sold in Amarr comes from, so the trader who wants to ship large quantities out to the regions also, by definition, has to operate from Jita and not in one of the regional hubs.

This is just one of many examples. Amarr simply isn't a substitute for Jita and nor is any other regional hub because they are not the home for many types of economic activities.

I'll leave you to figure the rest out. I'm pretty sure I'm already being trolled on this because I find it hard to believe that anyone who persists in stating their opinion could be quite that ignorant about the topic they are talking about. But just in case you genuinely need your hand held as you dip your toe in the basics of the game economy why don't you log in to some of the ingame trade chat channels and provide yourself with an education.


Or they can set up buy orders over several systems outside of Jita (like say amarr), build the stuff and ship it out to markets such as B-D, faction warfare hubs, near big staging systems and make more isk than just sticking to jita.


And yet, strangely, people who make their living in the game through trade and industry generally don't do this. I'll leave you to figure out why.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2013-06-24 17:18:19 UTC
RAW23 wrote:


And yet, strangely, people who make their living in the game through trade and industry generally don't do this. I'll leave you to figure out why.


Lazy.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#76 - 2013-06-24 17:30:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
RAW23 wrote:


And yet, strangely, people who make their living in the game through trade and industry generally don't do this. I'll leave you to figure out why.


Lazy.

Precisely.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#77 - 2013-06-24 17:32:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
1: Jita congestion is a minor inconvenience. If you keep trying you'll be in usually in less than a minute.

2: Jita congestion is a self resolving issue. If it gets to the point where people being to lose money, they will go elsewhere... thus making those other locations more and more desirable and reducing the congestion in Jita. Which, by the way, is a win/win situation for everyone in the game.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Roxxo I'doCocaine
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-06-24 17:33:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxxo I'doCocaine
Noddy Comet wrote:
Roxxo I'doCocaine wrote:
..... trade skills allow you to perform EXACTLY the same actions as if you were in system when it comes to buying and selling goods. The ONLY reason I can think of for wanting to be in the actual system for trading is access to the local channel of that system


Please enlighten us on which trade skills and it's minimum level to train to that an transport physical goods to and from a station without ever setting foot in it..

I think a few of the contract freight services would like to get in on this sooper seekrit skill.


Please stay on topic, which is not transporting physical goods to and from a station. For your convenience, since you cannot seem to be bothered to read the OP, I'll quote it for you:

"every day it´s frustrating - because I can not log in in jita. I´m a trader - it is my life to sit in jita..."

The issue is station trading. The solution to OP's problem is to move over a system and use his trading skills. Are you enlightened now?
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
#79 - 2013-06-25 00:19:03 UTC
Roxxo I'doCocaine wrote:
Noddy Comet wrote:
Roxxo I'doCocaine wrote:
..... trade skills allow you to perform EXACTLY the same actions as if you were in system when it comes to buying and selling goods. The ONLY reason I can think of for wanting to be in the actual system for trading is access to the local channel of that system


Please enlighten us on which trade skills and it's minimum level to train to that an transport physical goods to and from a station without ever setting foot in it..

I think a few of the contract freight services would like to get in on this sooper seekrit skill.


Please stay on topic, which is not transporting physical goods to and from a station. For your convenience, since you cannot seem to be bothered to read the OP, I'll quote it for you:

"every day it´s frustrating - because I can not log in in jita. I´m a trader - it is my life to sit in jita..."

The issue is station trading. The solution to OP's problem is to move over a system and use his trading skills. Are you enlightened now?



You stated the following edict as if from Ramses upon high.:

Quote:
trade skills allow you to perform EXACTLY the same actions as if you were in system when it comes to buying and selling goods.The ONLY reason I can think of for wanting to be in the actual system for trading is access to the local channel of that system


And I have brought forth a very cogent argument that blows holes in your pontification.

There are other reasons players would need to "be in the actual system for trading" that aren't allowed by merely training skills and not going there and getting a physical item from a station without actually setting foot in it does not fall into your "EXACTLY the same actions" begin available by said skills.

Your words, not mine.

[i]"The biggest problem with quotes on the Internet, is that just because it's on the Internet too many believe them to be real" -[/i]Abraham Lincoln's "Berlin Wall" speech at the 1984 Winter Olympics.
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-06-25 00:23:21 UTC
I didn't know there was a skill that let you remotely move items from cans to your main hangar in order to be able to sell them