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Skill-Time for Plex

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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2013-06-23 19:12:02 UTC
Jureth22 wrote:
this sort of makes sense.ccp is expecting players to pay for the second character a plex just to train it.why would the entire game be free,and pay plex for training?


where did i write that the game should be free? you should just be able to purchase additional skilltime with plex, nothing else

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Amarra Mandalin
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2013-06-23 21:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Rhivre wrote:
Meh, specialise...but then, everyone is impatient and wants to fly all the ships at once, when unless you are going for supercaps etc, 20m SP or so will get you most of what you want


Depending on what you want, it's closer to 30mil+ SP for a decently trained PvP character that can field T2 cruisers (LV IV), has BC V, and BS and/or Recon V (should you need either), SB and/or interceptor skills, with the rest of the SPs spent on some cross-training and/or a T3, leadership or whatnot. 40m is closer to the mark if your corp/alliance has broader doctrines you wish to take part in or you simply want more flexibility in subcaps.

As for the OP -- my vote is No. More of a bad thing, (e.g. buying characters --which at least provides players with the Isk) doesn't make a bad thing better.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2013-06-23 22:07:45 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Meh, specialise...but then, everyone is impatient and wants to fly all the ships at once, when unless you are going for supercaps etc, 20m SP or so will get you most of what you want


Depending on what you want, it's closer to 30mil+ SP for a decently trained PvP character that can field T2 cruisers (LV IV), has BC V, and BS and/or Recon V (should you need either), SB and/or interceptor skills, with the rest of the SPs spent on some cross-training and/or a T3, leadership or whatnot. 40m is closer to the mark if your corp/alliance has broader doctrines you wish to take part in or you simply want more flexibility in subcaps.

As for the OP -- my vote is No. More of a bad thing, (e.g. buying characters --which at least provides players with the Isk) doesn't make a bad thing better.



You don't need any of that for a competent PVP character though...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2013-06-24 02:19:37 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

That does nothing to make competition pointless. Once on the battlefield SP has little to do with a pilots ability to use there ship.

This is so wrong. SP and modules + ship are the most important thing in EvE. Pick any ship you like with any fitting I can teach a noob with all skills for that ship at 5's, T2 / faction / deadspace mods to fly it competently in an hour on test and kill a very experienced pilot in a lesser ship with skills trained to 3 for that ship and normal T1 modules.

People like to pretend player skill is important but its not. And it becomes less so the more people are added until its completely irrelevent in blobs.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-06-24 10:12:59 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Examples:

Corp A has 5 players
Corp B has 5 players

Corp A wardecs corp B. 24hours later, the battles begin.

Corp A realizes they screwed up, but they have a guy with cash and a good computer that's willing to buy a character off the market that is skilled for being a full fledged T3 Booster pilot. He also buys a boosting ship and the links, and they put him in their POS or other safe locations (we'll pretend this war is in high-sec).

At this point, Corp A has an advantage over Corp B due to a RL cash transaction. Leaving OGB issues out of it, as it is just an example, how is this *not* a problem?

A lot of the other examples in the thread that are in support of such things use the idea of a newbie going out and buying a Titan.
What I see as problems are experienced players with cash being able to go and buy advantages for their corp or alliance, vs. those who can't.


So a member of Corp B buys 2 of his Eve playing friends a drink and they agree to help him out for the duration of the war. Corp B has performed a (considerably cheaper) RL cash transaction and now they have the upper hand.

Buying characters is only an issue if you impose stupid limits on your engagements.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#86 - 2013-06-24 10:35:29 UTC
Expanding on that, it won't really benefit CCP in the long run to be allowing players who don't understand the game at all to start a trial account, buy a heap of plex and skill up their toon to 50mil and then have said player get his butt ruffled and cry about it all over the internet.

Partially because throwing players in to the deep end doesn't really work in EVE from a sustainability perspective especially once real $ enters the equation (been there personally) and partially because people out in the web responding to such comments aren't helping either with their sarcastic and narcassistic remarks.
Mark Androcius
#87 - 2013-06-24 10:46:34 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Remember most people in eve are against ideas like this because they have a vested interest in characters, some people earn isk by creating characters to be sold on the bazaar, when considering peoples opinions remember that bias.

Now I believe EvE should be free to play, and isk can be purchased via plex, directly from ccp. I think they would increase the playerbase, and revenue would also increase from isk sales, 3rd party websites are already trading isk at half the cost of plex with a simple google search, and CCP is losing money, I think CCP could initialize some type of isk buy back program to give veterans a means of earning an income from playing EvE, I know of players who sell wow gold to the Chinese at half or less value than retail just to get rid of it.




How is CCP losing money due to 3rd party isk sellers? explain this to us please.
Every plex in the game, has been and will always be bought by someone from CCP, so whether you buy it with RMT begotten isk, hard work deserved isk, PI isk, character trading isk or plain out RL money, CCP makes the money for each and every subscription, guaranteed.

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#88 - 2013-06-24 11:03:35 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:

yea i know maybe its a bit drastic, but it needs to be said this way, there could be an option to be able to buy skill-time only 3 month per year or something like that... for an new player the training time just seems to be too much, there must be a way at least to spezialize a character in one area faster

the older the game gets the more it will be needed as many high trained characters make your life as a newb not easy, I was able to trade up enough money so i could fly bigger ships fast, but do not have the skill to do it, I feel that restriction needs some adjustment

it was implemented to keep early players longer in the game, but it seems to be a big burden for new players now


Everybody has to start somewhere, I understand you have good intentions but how long before the system you propose leads to

"l want to use everything now! Here is my credit card!"

Part of the joy of this game is achieving goals, having to take time to train for a ship or ability makes them much more highly valued and worth while. I believe the system you propose will lead only to an instant gratification culture which will devalue the the game to the point it is not worth playing.

As to the character bazaar I have never liked it and would see the trade in characters shutdown if it were not for the fact it would just shift it to markets out of CCP's control.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#89 - 2013-06-24 11:23:51 UTC
gotta love it when 2 month old players start making these huge game changing suggestions.

Also funny how often its, 'waaa I want more Skill Points, people who've been playing for 5 years have more than me!'

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2013-06-24 11:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Jint Hikaru wrote:
gotta love it when 2 month old players start making these huge game changing suggestions.

Also funny how often its, 'waaa I want more Skill Points, people who've been playing for 5 years have more than me!'


yea minds are often blocked with experience and they can not see what clearly is needed anymore, thats why I'm here for you

thanks for your support

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2013-06-24 11:32:49 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

That does nothing to make competition pointless. Once on the battlefield SP has little to do with a pilots ability to use there ship.

This is so wrong. SP and modules + ship are the most important thing in EvE. Pick any ship you like with any fitting I can teach a noob with all skills for that ship at 5's, T2 / faction / deadspace mods to fly it competently in an hour on test and kill a very experienced pilot in a lesser ship with skills trained to 3 for that ship and normal T1 modules.

People like to pretend player skill is important but its not. And it becomes less so the more people are added until its completely irrelevent in blobs.



You really have no idea, do you.

Put your all Vs noob in his deadspace/officer fit vindicator, and send them in to scrap with someone who knows what they're doing in a T2 fit megathron, and see who comes out on top.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#92 - 2013-06-24 12:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Harry Forever wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
gotta love it when 2 month old players start making these huge game changing suggestions.

Also funny how often its, 'waaa I want more Skill Points, people who've been playing for 5 years have more than me!'


yea minds are often blocked with experience and they can not see what clearly is needed anymore, thats why I'm here for you

thanks for your support


With all due respect you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your proposed change simply won't happen.

The last time even the suggestion of pay to win being introduced was talked about enough players cancelled their subscriptions that CCP had to immediately backtrack their plans and also had to lay off a bunch of employees. Simply put, they had their hands burned badly and won't be doing that again. So many of the players feel strongly against pay for sp that CCP can't afford, in monetary terms, to introduce it even if they wanted to.

It's not so much that experience blocks thought but that experience brings understanding. No matter how you cut it, ignorance is still ignorance and you, sir, are ignorant but please, be my guest, continue making it obvious to all and sundry here on the forum.

edit : By pay to win I mean pay for sp/gold ammo/etc.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#93 - 2013-06-24 12:29:52 UTC
no

sentence substitute
1.= not at all, certainly not, of course not, absolutely not, never, no way, nay • `Any problems?' - `No, everything's fine.'
opposites: yes, of course, certainly

noun
2.= refusal, rejection, denial, negation, veto • My answer to that is an emphatic no.
opposites: acceptance, consent, assent

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-06-24 12:32:18 UTC
As has been said before in many a thread along this topic, Time is as valuable as skill points. If you REALLY want the SP and REALLY want to pay for it, go buy a toon. Plenty for sale. But it won't change anything. You need the TIME to learn how to use the SP.


Just sayin'.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-06-24 12:37:16 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

That does nothing to make competition pointless. Once on the battlefield SP has little to do with a pilots ability to use there ship.

This is so wrong. SP and modules + ship are the most important thing in EvE. Pick any ship you like with any fitting I can teach a noob with all skills for that ship at 5's, T2 / faction / deadspace mods to fly it competently in an hour on test and kill a very experienced pilot in a lesser ship with skills trained to 3 for that ship and normal T1 modules.

People like to pretend player skill is important but its not. And it becomes less so the more people are added until its completely irrelevent in blobs.



You really have no idea, do you.

Put your all Vs noob in his deadspace/officer fit vindicator, and send them in to scrap with someone who knows what they're doing in a T2 fit megathron, and see who comes out on top.

Noob in Vindi wins

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-06-24 12:44:52 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Noob in Vindi wins



Noob in Vindi over-reps, wastes cap, doesn't monitor drone battle(if deploys at all) doesn't manage heat, or ranges(uses Void when should be using Null)

Noob in Vindi loses. Very close, but loses.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2013-06-24 12:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Tchulen wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
gotta love it when 2 month old players start making these huge game changing suggestions.

Also funny how often its, 'waaa I want more Skill Points, people who've been playing for 5 years have more than me!'


yea minds are often blocked with experience and they can not see what clearly is needed anymore, thats why I'm here for you

thanks for your support


With all due respect you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your proposed change simply won't happen.

The last time even the suggestion of pay to win being introduced was talked about enough players cancelled their subscriptions that CCP had to immediately backtrack their plans and also had to lay off a bunch of employees. Simply put, they had their hands burned badly and won't be doing that again. So many of the players feel strongly against pay for sp that CCP can't afford, in monetary terms, to introduce it even if they wanted to.

It's not so much that experience blocks thought but that experience brings understanding. No matter how you cut it, ignorance is still ignorance and you, sir, are ignorant but please, be my guest, continue making it obvious to all and sundry here on the forum.

edit : By pay to win I mean pay for sp/gold ammo/etc.


you do not understand it, well... if some players ragequit because of changes then ccp should let them leave, it would be for the better in the long run, those people do not love the game as much as I do, I bring up ideas that would help the new player nothing more, I already explained that this would be just an additional option to train skills, it could be restricted to pruchase only 3 month of skilltime in addition per year, I do not see any issues with that... if you want to shoot a statue because of it, go shoot one, does not bother me

the only thing old players want to do here, is to limit the possibility of the new, you think that is your playground and want to keep it that way, I say you should not fear new players to become better then you, you should see it as advantage to make the game more challanging for veterans

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-06-24 12:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Forum is eating my posts left right and center today :(



Re-post:


CCP has done alot to balance the game. Yeah, SP is gonna make a difference, but you have ALOT of options open to you to fight older players too.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2013-06-24 12:53:49 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Forum is eating my posts left right and center today :(



Re-post:


CCP has done alot to balance the game. Yeah, SP is gonna make a difference, but you have ALOT of options open to you to fight older players too.


sure I know that, just asking to purchase some additional skill-time upfront in addition, could be limited to 3 month of skill-time a year, no problem with that, but it would make it a bit better for new players to specialize in one profession faster, thats all

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#100 - 2013-06-24 13:32:06 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
you do not understand it, well...

Yes, yes I do. It is you that is ignorant, my friend.

Harry Forever wrote:
if some players ragequit because of changes then ccp should let them leave, it would be for the better in the long run, those people do not love the game as much as I do,

You might love the game but you're blinkered by personal desire. You have no concept of how it would affect the game and so continue with your tunnel vision proposal ignorant of the far reaching effect it would have. You say you love the game yet you're prepared to kill it completely just so you can get something NOW NOW NOW. Have patience, young one and you shall receive. All good things come to those who wait but the impatient man lacks fulfillment. You're blind and selfish. People like you will be the death of this game as you were the death of Starwars Galaxies, another title who's producers pandered to the whining demands of those too self absorbed to see further than the end of their noses. I thank all the gods there are that CCP aren't that stupid.... anymore.

Harry Forever wrote:
I bring up ideas that would help the new player nothing more, I already explained that this would be just an additional option to train skills, it could be restricted to pruchase only 3 month of skilltime in addition per year, I do not see any issues with that... if you want to shoot a statue because of it, go shoot one, does not bother me

Shoot a statue? huh?
Blind, completely blind. Nothing more indeed. You have no idea. Either you weren't around when CCP nearly got blown out of the water by "rage quits" or you're ignoring the obvious implications of CCP doing this.

Harry Forever wrote:
the only thing old players want to do here, is to limit the possibility of the new, you think that is your playground and want to keep it that way, I say you should not fear new players to become better then you, you should see it as advantage to make the game more challanging for veterans

No one is afraid of new players progressing. We can see the destruction of the game we love in the selfish and ignorant demands of the idiotic few who, like you, simply can't see the big picture.