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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Federation citizens, let's talk about the Republic

Author
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#21 - 2013-06-24 02:04:54 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
That's actually the entire point of this discussion, Pilot Johnson. Our leadership knows that they'd better pay attention to what their constituents want or they'll soon be out of a job. Instead of saying "Our government is an apologist government, they need to go", why not talk about what you'd like them to do? Either the current leaders will do that, or the ones that we elect will.

Well said!
Cipher Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-06-24 02:40:59 UTC
I can't see a war with the Republic benefiting either them or us. It is in the best interests of both the Federation and Republic to remain on good terms. However, the monetary loss and the loss of Federation citizens precedented by the events at Colelie are unacceptable and the Republic must face some kind of severe repercussion for this until such time as they can act like our allies again.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#23 - 2013-06-24 11:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: BloodBird
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Mdme. Akahoshi, I mean no offence, but I really think this thread would have been better coming from someone else. People - myself included - are going to question your motives for posting this thread.


You think?

The opinions of an Angel operative, especially ones concerning breaking the Federation-Republic bond is highly questionable at best, an out-right attempt to assist the Cartel by proxy at worst. Akahoshi's reputation is to smeared and worthless to respect her stated ideas and aims as her own, unfortunately for her.

I do see value in this topic, airing beliefs and feelings on this matter, but I find myself utterly unable to believe a word from Akahoshi's mouth. And I do mean this with all the offence of a proverbial gunshot to the face. Regardless however, the topic itself can and will continue, the message has much merit. The messenger? Not so much.

James Syagrius wrote:
Alliances endure or fail for many reasons.

Trust is the one that I consider of paramount importance.

Dare we ever trust them again?


There is no "We" here Angel.

There is "The citizens of the Union" and then there is "Angel filth."

You belong only in one of these definitions. You made your choice some time ago.

Your opinion on this matter is worthless, as is the opinions of your boss and fellow pirates.
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#24 - 2013-06-24 12:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Narcisa De Fontaine
BloodBird wrote:


There is no "We" here Angel.

There is "The citizens of the Union" and then there is "Angel filth."

You belong only in one of these definitions. You made your choice some time ago.

Your opinion on this matter is worthless, as is the opinions of your boss and fellow pirates.


Excuse me, but wasn't your corporation fighting for the State Protectorate until relatively recently? Or are you still working at that?

Yes, I'm sure you have your reasons. While I admit James knows he is in the wrong, and is currently being very stubborn, he has his reasons too. He's going to come back home to the Federation one day, of that I'm very sure. The way in which he still joins discussions about the Federation like this, and conducts himself like a citizen, is evidence to me.

So, while you're drawing breath to respond with your typical ranting and crude tear of potty mouth, maybe you should consider something. That even when James is on the wrong side of the fence, his views and opinions somehow remain more measured, informed, and relevant than yours.

Strange, no?
Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#25 - 2013-06-24 12:14:00 UTC
Federation citizens, let's talk about waffles.

Fruit, chocolate, or naked?
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#26 - 2013-06-24 13:13:17 UTC
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:


Excuse me, but wasn't your corporation fighting for the State Protectorate until relatively recently? Or are you still working at that?

Yes, I'm sure you have your reasons. While I admit James knows he is in the wrong, and is currently being very stubborn, he has his reasons too. He's going to come back home to the Federation one day, of that I'm very sure. The way in which he still joins discussions about the Federation like this, and conducts himself like a citizen, is evidence to me.

So, while you're drawing breath to respond with your typical ranting and crude tear of potty mouth, maybe you should consider something. That even when James is on the wrong side of the fence, his views and opinions somehow remain more measured, informed, and relevant than yours.

Strange, no?


Oh I'm sorry, am I being to critical for your tastes? Am I not polite enough? Would you rather speak with a silver-tongued slaver then me because the slaver is less aggressive when he speaks of matters that no longer concern him?

By all means, go ahead. You know who they are and I'm sure no-one you care to hang out with will think any less of you for the company you keep or the people you speak in defense of. I for a fact surely will not condemn you for that because if I did condemn people for who they merely speak with, I would never run out of hypocrites who socialize with people that oppose their own stated ideals and views. That's just how Capsuleers work, you understand.

Here are a few facts for you, as a parting gift.

First of all, my organization left the State's service nearly a month ago and I did not join until they were officially out. My former CEO did not put to much of a fuzz around that and was officially a Protectorate Ensign for a few days, while he did nothing to further the State's cause. DUTY. is an independent and unaligned organization, and the fact we have employed and continue to employ citizens of nearly every nation out there, with no problems so far, prove that.

Secondly, just because you like to think that being a smooth talker makes one's arguments and beliefs more "relevant" than others does not make it so. Syagrius' comments and beliefs regarding the Federated Union is IRRELEVANT in this context because he is an Angel operative. Do you know what that means?

That means that he actively support an enemy of both the Federation and the Republic, so when he speaks up about this topic, now that division rears it's head between these two nations, obviously he will be in favor of whatever furthers the divide. IT SERVER THE CAUSE OF HIS PAY-MASTERS IN CURSE, YOU SEE.

Third and last, there will be one day when Syagrius grows tired of his current masters and then, he may possibly want to return to the Union. Being a Capsuleer, the government can not really stop him. Hardly any capsuleer will try either. No, in fact, by then several people, perhaps yourself among them, will welcome him back with open arms and forgive him anything and everything he has done. And just like that, there will not be any consequences to his betrayal, other than the "potty mouth disapproval" of people like me.

But by all means, ignore my protests as "less relevant" than the words of a traitor and self-declared enemy. As we all know, it's better to have a shining, fat social-circle to rely on than to be known for any kind of integrity.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-06-24 15:18:57 UTC
Baby, I'm an ex-Angel operative. It's kind of how you're in an ex-State Protectorate corporation, you know? Except I stopped working for the Cartel quite a bit longer than a month ago, if you catch my drift. It's the mercenary life, you know. You end up taking money from a lot of people, and you don't ask too many questions of the people you end up working for.

In any case, if you really want to keep going with your ad hominem arguments against Syagrius and myself, by all means. Please, though, take them to another thread. They're not particularly germaine in a topic that exists to ask other Federation citizens what they think.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#28 - 2013-06-24 16:08:04 UTC
Captain Akahoshi, you are right, and I apologize for my part in derailing your thread.

I will refrain from dragging this even further off topic by responding to Mr "Bloodbird" and his petulant ranting in any detail, other than to say I am unsurprised that he does not have a 'shining fat' social circle, and I wish him a very long and productive tenure with his friends in the State.

Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#29 - 2013-06-24 16:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sanadras Riahn
I find it, personally, a tad humorous that so many Capsuleers are so invested in the goings-on of the Republic and Federation relationship, when they have the perfect opportunity to say "screw 'em" and just be a nation unto themselves.

But, as I am a Gallente citizen and an opinion was offered, I can't entirely say I'm surprised at what's happened, and not entirely surprised at the Federation's lack of meaningful response. The Minmatar were never meant to have a unified government, quite honestly; our roots are far too deep in the tribal society, and each tribe's personality is entirely unique to the point that head-butting is inevitable. Which, unfortunately, leads to collateral damage, a la the Federation losses on their most recent excursion.

My faith in the Senate's ability to produce a response is non-existent at this point, after they expressed shock at the Tribal Court's reaction. I mean, really. What in New Eden could they have possibly expected? After the Republic sent in a fleet to attempt to take the murderer by force, they didn't expect an execution?

Heads need to be removed from high-ranking asses on both sides, methinks. But, what do I know?

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.

Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#30 - 2013-06-24 16:37:11 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
I find it, personally, a tad humorous that so many Capsuleers are so invested in the goings-on of the Republic and Federation relationship, when they have the perfect opportunity to say "screw 'em" and just be a nation unto themselves.


We are thousands, they are billions. Citizenship is one of the things that still ties us to the rest of the species; many of us value it all the more for that.
Niko medes
Freeman Technologies
#31 - 2013-06-24 16:57:29 UTC
Quote:
I find it, personally, a tad humorous that so many Capsuleers are so invested in the goings-on of the Republic and Federation relationship, when they have the perfect opportunity to say "screw 'em" and just be a nation unto themselves.


We are a mere speck compared to the population that is within the Nations. While a powerful speck, we would eventually succumb to the sheer might of all four empires bearing down on us. Also in chance that you bring up that point that "if all capsuleers became a nation unto their own kind we could win!", well many wouldn't commit to that and instead fight the "capsuleer nation" because they value their own existence far more.

Many capsuleers have most of their clones stationed in Empire space last time I checked, in stations loyal to the Nations. See where I'm going with this?


Anyhow, back on topic..

Captain Akahoshi, I'm sure you already know my stance on this discussion so I'll refrain from repeating myself. Thank you for bringing this to the table though, it is good to see the opinion of our brothers and sisters.

Derin Phobos
Kinetic Technologies
#32 - 2013-06-24 17:17:19 UTC
Cipher Deninard wrote:
I can't see a war with the Republic benefiting either them or us. It is in the best interests of both the Federation and Republic to remain on good terms. However, the monetary loss and the loss of Federation citizens precedented by the events at Colelie are unacceptable and the Republic must face some kind of severe repercussion for this until such time as they can act like our allies again.


This is a very reasonable, calm response to the matter. The practical reasons behind the alliance itself still exist. However, breaches of trust and respect on the scale of Colelie can render even the most critical alliance unsustainable.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-06-24 18:08:18 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
I find it, personally, a tad humorous that so many Capsuleers are so invested in the goings-on of the Republic and Federation relationship, when they have the perfect opportunity to say "screw 'em" and just be a nation unto themselves.


You make a good point, and there was a time in my life when I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.

I've come to view our society - the society of capsuleers - as inherently incomplete, however. When we do break off to create our own nations, those nations tend to descend into infighting and burn themselves out in spasms of destruction long before they ever reach the point of becoming self sufficient. I'm not talking about short-term economic self sustainability, by the way. Instead, I'm talking about long-term sustainability. In the decade since we have begun to create our own nations, none of them has reached the point where they have been able to replace all of the functions of the existing nations. I've come to believe that there is something inherently unstable about the society of capsuleers as it is right now that prevents us from doing this. The fact that other minor factions - even outlaw factions such as the Guristas - have been able to do this isn't lost on me.

I've come to appreciate the stabilizing influence that association with a larger nation has on us, as capsuleers. We tend to cast ourselves as entirely self-sufficient, powerful, godlike post-humans who answer to no one. Yet our actions, especially those of us who forsake the existing nations and attempt to create our own, tend more towards the destructive than the constructive. This is ultimately why I have come full circle and returned to the Federation. Not out of a sense of duty, or of loyalty, but out of a desire to be part of a larger conversation, a larger society, with all which that entails.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2013-06-24 18:49:02 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Baby, I'm an ex-Angel operative. It's kind of how you're in an ex-State Protectorate corporation, you know? Except I stopped working for the Cartel quite a bit longer than a month ago, if you catch my drift. It's the mercenary life, you know. You end up taking money from a lot of people, and you don't ask too many questions of the people you end up working for.

In any case, if you really want to keep going with your ad hominem arguments against Syagrius and myself, by all means. Please, though, take them to another thread. They're not particularly germaine in a topic that exists to ask other Federation citizens what they think.


I can confirm that our contract with Miss Akahoshi was based solely on her combat performance and not upon any sort of expectation of some kind of 'conversion'. Miss Akahoshi was, and remains, an outspoken individual with her own points of view.

As much as I came to develop a fondness for her, personally, while she was with us, that should not be taken as any kind of support of her unique beliefs and opinions.

I can also confirm Bloodbird's claim to have never done anything in support of the State, and his similar claim on behalf of Msr Ixirus.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#35 - 2013-06-24 19:23:58 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I can also confirm Bloodbird's claim to have never done anything in support of the State, and his similar claim on behalf of Msr Ixirus.

I see what you did there, Pieter.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#36 - 2013-06-24 19:40:56 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I can also confirm Bloodbird's claim to have never done anything in support of the State, and his similar claim on behalf of Msr Ixirus.


You can extend that to the entirety of the Federation you know.
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#37 - 2013-06-24 20:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Vachon
Andrea Okazon wrote:
Federation citizens, let's talk about waffles.

Fruit, chocolate, or naked?


Mmmm, waffles.

Also good with fried chicken, so I hear, or any chicken-analogous food you want to substitute.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#38 - 2013-06-24 20:12:33 UTC
Minmatar have a penchant and reputation for being hotheads, but they are also more in favor of direct action as opposed to diplomatic kabuki, play a mean game of cards, and are great as drinking buddies or in-the-sack buddies. Their governmental structure is looser than our own, but with any group there will be that faction that goes off on their own and does something stupid.

I do not think breaking the alliance between our two empires is a good idea at this juncture, and fighting a war against them as a empire at this juncture is an insane idea for both the Federation and the Republic.

Because then we would have to fight the Caldari, the Amarr, and the Minmatar at the same time, and they would be facing three opponants as well.

No, an ignition of hostile action and open warfare between the Federation and the Republic plays into the hands of our mutual enemies.

That being said, some reparations should be made, and someone needs to be standing trial for this.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Cipher Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-06-24 21:55:57 UTC
Derin Phobos wrote:
This is a very reasonable, calm response to the matter. The practical reasons behind the alliance itself still exist. However, breaches of trust and respect on the scale of Colelie can render even the most critical alliance unsustainable.


I'm glad you think so. Rushing in to hasty decisions in situations such as this is not the right thing to do. As you say I am still definitely in favor of the alliance, but an alliance requires trust and trust between our two nations can not exist when one side exhibits unpredictable attacks against the other.

Sanadras Riahn wrote:

I find it, personally, a tad humorous that so many Capsuleers are so invested in the goings-on of the Republic and Federation relationship, when they have the perfect opportunity to say "screw 'em" and just be a nation unto themselves


Some of us enjoy not being entirely withdrawn from the societies that we were born and raised with. Often the comments made by non-capsuleers causes me to wish that I were no longer in contact with them. But equally I feel the same from the comments of fellow capsuleers.

Taking an interest in improving the empires will create a better universe for all of us. Benefiting the non-capsuleers may also benefit us.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#40 - 2013-06-25 00:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
BloodBird wrote:
Would you rather speak with a silver-tongued slaver then me because the slaver is less aggressive when he speaks of matters that no longer concern him?

Motivations are complicated things.

My association with the Cartel is no secrete and has allowed me to aid the Federal cause in... unexpected ways.

Yes, an end to the alliance between the Federation and tribal entity would please my masters.

It would also serve the interests of the Federation.

I ask you to find fault with the message, not the messenger.