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Introduce real hull tanking
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Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-11-08 02:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
I was thinking... and bad stuff normally happens when I do...
Buffing hull tanking, the active tanking that is... wouldnt that be interesting?
Make logistic ships with remote hull rep bonuses, and improve the hull rep mods.
At the moment of cause a hull buffer can be really nice on some ships, so what do you guys think?

Real men hull tank

Also, I don't think it should be buffed to the level of shield or armor, just make it more viable

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Goose99
#2 - 2011-11-08 03:22:43 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I was thinking... and bad stuff normally happens when I do...
Buffing hull tanking, the active tanking that is... wouldnt that be interesting?
Make logistic ships with remote hull rep bonuses, and improve the hull rep mods.
At the moment of cause a hull buffer can be really nice on some ships, so what do you guys think?

Real men hull tank

Also, I don't think it should be buffed to the level of shield or armor, just make it more viable


Supported. Hull tanking should be viable. Good for deception, lulz, tears and rage.
u57I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-08 03:48:55 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I was thinking... and bad stuff normally happens when I do...
Buffing hull tanking, the active tanking that is... wouldnt that be interesting?
Make logistic ships with remote hull rep bonuses, and improve the hull rep mods.
At the moment of cause a hull buffer can be really nice on some ships, so what do you guys think?

Real men hull tank

Also, I don't think it should be buffed to the level of shield or armor, just make it more viable


/signed

Peace.Through.Power.
u57I
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-11-08 03:51:25 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
I was thinking... and bad stuff normally happens when I do...
Buffing hull tanking, the active tanking that is... wouldnt that be interesting?
Make logistic ships with remote hull rep bonuses, and improve the hull rep mods.
At the moment of cause a hull buffer can be really nice on some ships, so what do you guys think?

Real men hull tank

Also, I don't think it should be buffed to the level of shield or armor, just make it more viable


/signed

Peace.Through.Power.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-11-08 04:22:27 UTC
Agreed. Hull tanking needs more options. Both active and passive.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6 - 2011-11-08 05:01:18 UTC
Hull Rigs

And change reinforced bulkhead penalty from speed to cargo space.
Tsael Amatin
Loony Toons Gang
#7 - 2011-11-08 05:18:14 UTC
While I don't want to decry hull tanking, I just can't see it as a logical option. For lots of reasons, but the ones that come to mind prominently are:

Where would it fit in terms of racial configuration? Sansha? Jovian? Sleepers? All the playable races have a racial tank type (which is, admittedly, not always observed).

Should it be as effective as armor/shield tanking? Hull's can have massive, I mean really, massive resistance bonuses and EHP if fitted properly in the current gamestate, though not much tank without sacrificing a more than one useful slot.

And I think, logically, the way it is is the way it should be. If you can get someone/thing down to their hull in a combat situation that tells you that what you're doing is working effectively and they should be panicking. Increased hull tanking would remove that element because you'd be working you way through two layers of defense only to be halted by a very resilient third.

It would definitely be risky to hull tank because if your tank cracks that would be it for your ship. To the people who would have the gumption to do so, I give you props.

But I still don't think it's a good idea in terms of a gameplay mechanic.

Yay for healthy forum discussions. Because spaceships are serious business. Fly safe.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-11-08 07:34:22 UTC
yes boost hull tanking

:)
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2011-11-08 08:07:17 UTC
Mmmmm... Gallente ships love hull tanking...

Supported.

How did you Veterans start?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#10 - 2011-11-08 14:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Tsael Amatin wrote:
While I don't want to decry hull tanking, I just can't see it as a logical option. For lots of reasons, but the ones that come to mind prominently are:

Where would it fit in terms of racial configuration? Sansha? Jovian? Sleepers? All the playable races have a racial tank type (which is, admittedly, not always observed).

Should it be as effective as armor/shield tanking? Hull's can have massive, I mean really, massive resistance bonuses and EHP if fitted properly in the current gamestate, though not much tank without sacrificing a more than one useful slot.

And I think, logically, the way it is is the way it should be. If you can get someone/thing down to their hull in a combat situation that tells you that what you're doing is working effectively and they should be panicking. Increased hull tanking would remove that element because you'd be working you way through two layers of defense only to be halted by a very resilient third.

It would definitely be risky to hull tank because if your tank cracks that would be it for your ship. To the people who would have the gumption to do so, I give you props.

But I still don't think it's a good idea in terms of a gameplay mechanic.



Logical Option, Racial Configuration: Gallente ship power grid and CPU CRY out for hull tanking (just look at their PG and CPU requirements). However, while shield and armor tankers have rigs to boost their EHP, hull tankers do not. And therefore they can't stay on the field long enough to kill their prey.

Effectiveness: Still not as effective as traditional shield or armor tanking, but slots are freed up for other forms of tanking/fight control.

Logic, Risk: Real men hull tank and love it when they are close to death!

Gameplay Mechanic: Probably a great idea, but perhaps not. In any case, it would be fun!
Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2011-11-08 15:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
I support this product and/or service.

just think of the surprise factor...

shields simply melt (seriously, is that top red bar even used for anything?
armour goes down relatively quick ...

At ~20% armour
"bad guy" -- woohoo! I'm gonna kill this guy!
"hull tanker" -- believe what you will mate ^_^

at 0% armour
"bad guy" -- ZOMGWTF What happened to my DPS?! (starts frantically checking for burned out mods, nanite paste, etc).
"hull tanker" -- I can sit here all day mate... what's with the pea shooters?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-08 16:24:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
Velicitia wrote:
I support this product and/or service.

just think of the surprise factor...

shields simply melt (seriously, is that top red bar even used for anything?
armour goes down relatively quick ...

At ~20% armour
"bad guy" -- woohoo! I'm gonna kill this guy!
"hull tanker" -- believe what you will mate ^_^

at 0% armour
"bad guy" -- ZOMGWTF What happened to my DPS?! (starts frantically checking for burned out mods, nanite paste, etc).
"hull tanker" -- I can sit here all day mate... what's with the pea shooters?


;) well, it should never be made that powerfull, I think the hull repair should repair a bit less than armor repairs ofc... :) but some hull rigs would be nice, and remember the max resistance on hull is 60% so their dps will stay relatively high

what I think should be changed is how much cap usage the hull repairs have, and how much they repair

Currently the stats on a large hull repairer II is 120 structure HP per cycle, with a cycle time of 24 sec, and uses 120 GJ per cycle

I personly think if you upped it to like 600 per cycle, and cycle time to about idk... same as armor repair module, it would be awesome (and adjust cap usage to be fair) wouldn't hurt to adjust the fitting requirements then, more pg and less cpu :)

but Idk what sort of stats would be ballanced :)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#13 - 2011-11-08 16:44:46 UTC
You'd have to change hull reppers by quite a bit to match armor or shield repper ability in terms of raw numbers. Some options: You could keep the raw numbers in terms of repped dps, but keep the cycle time the same - which would be interesting in that you could get popped between rep cycles. but in the end they would be less effective than armor reppers (which is what you want)

Or you could go the other way and cycle really fast but rep less dps than armor reppers. Less vulnerable to getting popped between repping cycles.
Zircon Dasher
#14 - 2011-11-08 16:50:34 UTC
Hull tanking as a general idea: 100% Support

As a tricky mechanic to actually implament in a balanced fashion: 100% Skeptical

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#15 - 2011-11-08 17:14:45 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
I support this product and/or service.

just think of the surprise factor...

shields simply melt (seriously, is that top red bar even used for anything?
armour goes down relatively quick ...

At ~20% armour
"bad guy" -- woohoo! I'm gonna kill this guy!
"hull tanker" -- believe what you will mate ^_^

at 0% armour
"bad guy" -- ZOMGWTF What happened to my DPS?! (starts frantically checking for burned out mods, nanite paste, etc).
"hull tanker" -- I can sit here all day mate... what's with the pea shooters?


;) well, it should never be made that powerfull, I think the hull repair should repair a bit less than armor repairs ofc... :) but some hull rigs would be nice, and remember the max resistance on hull is 60% so their dps will stay relatively high

what I think should be changed is how much cap usage the hull repairs have, and how much they repair

Currently the stats on a large hull repairer II is 120 structure HP per cycle, with a cycle time of 24 sec, and uses 120 GJ per cycle

I personly think if you upped it to like 600 per cycle, and cycle time to about idk... same as armor repair module, it would be awesome (and adjust cap usage to be fair) wouldn't hurt to adjust the fitting requirements then, more pg and less cpu :)

but Idk what sort of stats would be ballanced :)


no, i agree that it needs to be balanced too. It would just be funny to have something like that happen Cool

to a degree, this happens with armour tankers already (least when the other guy is a newb) -- shields drop relatively fast, and then armour just sits there...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-11-08 22:23:15 UTC
This is one of those things I would really like to hear the view of from CCP what they think, is it somrthing we may see in the future? Or is it out of the picture? And why not if so?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#17 - 2011-11-09 00:22:42 UTC
I totally agree with this! It definitely needs to be a viable option. It doesn't need to be race oriented at all... Just a plain crafty tactic. The above suggested adjustment to Hull reppers and needed rigs please! Remote hull logistics?

Agreed that it shouldn't compare with shield/armor tanking, just make it not suck so bad as it is now.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Little Shrimp
Militem HQ
#18 - 2011-12-03 22:21:00 UTC
/signed

Hull tanking got the buffer it needs, and the remot reppers are decent, but still not even close to shield/armour and the local reppers is so bad, i've not sen any1 use them for years. it needs a buff. i'd like i regular large tech 2 hull repper to do about 150 dps omni tank whit a dmg control on it, or som thing like that. and ppl might just start use active hull tanking for pvp, and that 150 dps tank, can be nerfed if we get riggs, like deruction and reppbonus on them.

/LS
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-12-03 22:59:27 UTC
Please keep Elite Hull tanking Cert. a joke.

More Lulz fits. Don't turn a lulz fit into an effective fit
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#20 - 2011-12-03 23:21:45 UTC
/supported

when i started, i looked for all the options for tanking the hull, untill i realized better. to who ever complained about having to fight through an extra layer of defence- there are three levels, so yeah, you should have to fight through wichever your apponent ahs chosen to buff.
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