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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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It's about time Autopilot warp to zero.

First post
Author
Black Dranzer
#101 - 2011-11-08 03:33:22 UTC
I'm considering starting up an assembly hall thread, but those aren't good for my health.

I really think this would be a good change, but I'm trying to figure out if there are angles I haven't covered yet.

Basically, there are three types of people who'd use APWTZ:

1) Regular attentive pilots
2) AFK lowsec/nullsec pilots
3) AFK highsec pilots

For 1, there's no practical change. A person at the keyboard APWTZing is no safer or faster than if they were piloting manually. They just have to deal with less tedium. For 2, it's a non-issue: AFK low and nullsec autopiloters don't exist, currently.

The key is 3, mainly in the effects it'd have on suicide gankers.

I'd argue the change is highly desirable for suicide gankers because while it'd become much harder to kill autopiloters in transit, there'd be an enormous jump in autopiloters AFK on destination, because all the old autopilot AFKers would still autopilot AFK, and there'd be new ones who'd do it too (ie those who are only going to be AFK for, say, 15 minutes instead of 6 hours) who'd also be vulnerable.

But I might be missing something. Any ideas, guys?
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#102 - 2011-11-08 03:38:05 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
I'm considering starting up an assembly hall thread, but those aren't good for my health.

I really think this would be a good change, but I'm trying to figure out if there are angles I haven't covered yet.

Basically, there are three types of people who'd use APWTZ:

1) Regular attentive pilots
2) AFK lowsec/nullsec pilots
3) AFK highsec pilots

For 1, there's no practical change. A person at the keyboard APWTZing is no safer or faster than if they were piloting manually. They just have to deal with less tedium. For 2, it's a non-issue: AFK low and nullsec autopiloters don't exist, currently.

The key is 3, mainly in the effects it'd have on suicide gankers.

I'd argue the change is highly desirable for suicide gankers because while it'd become much harder to kill autopiloters in transit, there'd be an enormous jump in autopiloters AFK on destination, because all the old autopilot AFKers would still autopilot AFK, and there'd be new ones who'd do it too (ie those who are only going to be AFK for, say, 15 minutes instead of 6 hours) who'd also be vulnerable.

But I might be missing something. Any ideas, guys?


Jita Lag. Server stress. Enjoy.
Black Dranzer
#103 - 2011-11-08 03:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
Zions Child wrote:
Jita Lag. Server stress. Enjoy.

Hmmmm..

I dunno, that's barely even worth a response. The gates would probably become a bit more clogged, but an AFK pilot, even in space, wouldn't hog much resources. Jita's a heavy duty node anyway. The change would increase the number of people on gates, but not by so much as to bring Jita to a crawl.

It's the kind of objection which makes you question if the suggestion is actually the real problem.

If we're at the point where AFK pilots on gates bring the servers to a crawl, perhaps we have bigger problems than AFK pilots on gates, if that makes any sense.
Ai Shun
#104 - 2011-11-08 04:06:40 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
I really think this would be a good change, but I'm trying to figure out if there are angles I haven't covered yet.


What is your trade-off?

The players who are attentive in any sec, watching their warp to zero and are not AFK are currently rewarded by having a lower risk factor than those that warp to 15 and AFK their way through the jumps.

You're proposing making it equal in terms of that aspect of risk to be AFK and to be at the keyboard.

Any shift towards automated game-play, such as a warp to 0 while AFK seems undesirable to me unless there is a trade-off - something that either increases the risk or makes it less desirable to do this way than it does to be at the keyboard, actively participating.

So, what would you consider to be a sensible trade-off? 1/4 of the warp speed while on auto-pilot? Something else?
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2011-11-08 04:07:25 UTC
just some quick googling and found a suitable history lesson for ya.

Taedrin wrote:
linkage to post warp to zero history


Warp-to-0, instas, and you...

There once was a time when there was no warp-to-0. This was a horrible time where people were forced to warp within 15 kilometers of a gate and fly within 2.5km of the gate before jumping and to start the process anew. This was the dark ages of pirates, where pilots were actually vulnerable when travelling. Pilots were unjustly forced to use higher-brain functions by looking at the map and plotting a safe course around potential gate camps. Pilots who lacked such higher-brain functions were left to die miserably to the gate camps.

One day, such a pilot suddenly had a stroke of uncharacteristic genius! In his frequently travelled systems, he could create bookmarks approximately 12-15km from the gate such that when he warped from one gate to the bookmark, he would land directly on top of it! Thus instas, and the great bookmark revolution began. Everyone began creating instas for their favorite systems. It was soon discovered that as the number of gates increased in a system, the number of instas that you need to complete the "set", so to speak, grew exponentially. Soon, an entire market sprang up out of nowhere, based upon the sale of large areas of instas!

This is when the glorious instas showed their dark side. With so many millions upon millions of instas in existence they slowly gave birth to a demon of pure lag. Tales are told of pilots who accidentally opened their people and places window and were forced to wait an eternity as the instas finished loading.

Meanwhile, people continued to use instas, and they became a integral part of EVE. Entire alliances kept sets of bookmarks for the regions of space they occupied. Escrow was filled with advertisements selling thousands upon thousands of bookmarks. Pirates and carebears a like would not be caught anywhere near low sec or 0.0 without a full set of instas.

As the problems continued, TQ slowly grinded to a halt. It was then that CCP decided that something must be done! They asked players for ideas. It was then that 4 mighty factions on the Features and Ideas forum formed. The WTZ faction, the Nuke Instas faction, the Starmaps faction, and the corporate bookmarks faction. Each faction waged bitter forum war against each other, deciding that their solution to the insta problem was correct. In general, the pirates favored the Nuke Instas option, while carebears favored the WTZ option. Those in the middle favored Starmaps or corporate bookmarks. After a long bloody war that left no soul unscathed, CCP decided that instas had become too important to remove. On top of this, Starmaps and corporate bookmarks would require too much code, and/or would not yield enough decrease in lag (though I still of the fervant opinion that Starmaps would've been much cooler, and still to this day disagree with Maya on this point). It was then that Warp To 0km was championed by CCP. A great treaty was signed by all of the forum warriors that Warp To 0km on Autopilot was a pandoras box that if opened, would end all concepts of danger from low sec and 0.0. Thus CCP did not allow Autopilot to utilize WTZ. Thus as CCP introduced WTZ, The Great Bookmark Massacre began, as millions upon millions of instas were mercilessly slaughtered.

And this brings us to today...


so basically the op's posting and relevant replies has showed their lack of respect for eve history and further lack of respect for a topic that has been debated and thus ended with a mutual agreement between players .

it has been basically spelled out that autopilot warp to zero is bad and to further illustrate the point , doing a search in google brings up results for client modifications and bots which underlines just how bad this is.

The game is ment to be played not farmed.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#106 - 2011-11-08 04:08:41 UTC
CCP never wanted autopilot to warp to zero. Autopilot is for those who do not care enough for their safety to manually fly.
Black Dranzer
#107 - 2011-11-08 04:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
Ai Shun wrote:
What is your trade-off?

The tradeoff is implicit. The drawback of AFK autopiloting is that you're AFK. That means you can't respond to in-game changes, can't activate your modules, can't check local markets, can't discuss matters with your corp.. do I really need to go on?

Sri Nova wrote:
and thus ended with a mutual agreement between players

Evidently not.

Corina Jarr wrote:
CCP never wanted autopilot to warp to zero. Autopilot is for those who do not care enough for their safety to manually fly.

Yes, we know about the past and the current state of affairs. This thread is about the proposition of a future change. Sorry, that might not have been clear.
Commander Spurty
#108 - 2011-11-08 04:14:35 UTC
fug that idea, I want modules that allow me to corrupt your auto pilot and steer you into danger to be honest.

Go eat your Cheetos, we'll take care of your cargo ;0

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#109 - 2011-11-08 04:22:19 UTC
I had this happen today.

Jumped into a system in my freighter, Tubby Bastard. Clicked for WTZ on the next gate en route and went to make a cuppa as I knew the align time would be about four minutes :P

Come back in time to watch the freighter. The big, fat, dead slow monstrosity of a freighter, bounce 10k off the gate like a bloody rubber ball.

Fix that, CCP and I will fight tooth and nail to keep warp to 15 when AP. Don't fix it and I will cry like a slapped ***** and curse you forever.

Mr Epeen Cool
Froz3nEcho Sarain
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2011-11-08 04:22:30 UTC
I always use autopilot in high-sec and alt-tab the game. Even when using haulers... but on the other hand I am not stupid enough to transport a few 100 mil in a T1 hauler. (Contracts yay!). I learned that mistake when I was on autopilot 'studying for school' when a tempest yellowboxed me. Fortunately I was paying attention and had just enough time to burn to the gate with a MWD.

Anyways shuttle + high-sec + autopilot = the best way to move your butt around.

[i]~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~   ~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~[/i]

Noriko Mai
#111 - 2011-11-08 04:25:06 UTC
Shian Yang wrote:

LOL. When travelling long distances I use Autopilot AND Warp to 0.

1. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
2. Do something else on my second monitor.
3. "Autopilot jumping" audio prompts me to return to game.
4. Hit CTRL-S to disable Autopilot.
5. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
6. Do something else on my second monitor.
7. Rinse and repeat...


lol

1. Warp to Zero.
2. Activate Autopilot.
3. Do what you want until you hear the jumpsound
4. While Autopilot waits a few seconds, Warp to Zero.
2. ... 3. ...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Commander TGK
The Deep Space Armada
#112 - 2011-11-08 04:30:44 UTC
Jodis Talvanen wrote:
Dear CCP,

With all the stuff that you are fixing, can you remove the autopilot-not-warping-to-zero "feature" as well?

It is obviously outdated and plain stupid.

Tired Finger



All I really have to say to this, is that you've made yourself sound like a whiny noob with no understanding of Eve mechanics. I agree with previous statements, go back to wow.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#113 - 2011-11-08 04:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aggressive Nutmeg
Noriko Mai wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:

LOL. When travelling long distances I use Autopilot AND Warp to 0.

1. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
2. Do something else on my second monitor.
3. "Autopilot jumping" audio prompts me to return to game.
4. Hit CTRL-S to disable Autopilot.
5. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
6. Do something else on my second monitor.
7. Rinse and repeat...


lol

1. Warp to Zero.
2. Activate Autopilot.
3. Do what you want until you hear the jumpsound
4. While Autopilot waits a few seconds, Warp to Zero.
2. ... 3. ...


Same process. Less detail? Not sure if you're trying to make a point.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.

Noriko Mai
#114 - 2011-11-08 04:33:16 UTC
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
Shian Yang wrote:

LOL. When travelling long distances I use Autopilot AND Warp to 0.

1. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
2. Do something else on my second monitor.
3. "Autopilot jumping" audio prompts me to return to game.
4. Hit CTRL-S to disable Autopilot.
5. Warp to Zero and hit CTRL-S to activate Autopilot.
6. Do something else on my second monitor.
7. Rinse and repeat...


lol

1. Warp to Zero.
2. Activate Autopilot.
3. Do what you want until you hear the jumpsound
4. While Autopilot waits a few seconds, Warp to Zero.
2. ... 3. ...


LOL

Same process. Less detail?


I dont get it why he dactivates the autopilot

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Ai Shun
#115 - 2011-11-08 04:50:03 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
What is your trade-off?

The tradeoff is implicit. The drawback of AFK autopiloting is that you're AFK. That means you can't respond to in-game changes, can't activate your modules, can't check local markets, can't discuss matters with your corp.. do I really need to go on?


Then what is the difference between warp to zero and warp to 15 if you are AFK. None, except for the reduced traveling time but as you're AFK it makes no difference.

No, afraid the disadvantages outweigh the benefits far too much for me. Can't support you in this.
Black Dranzer
#116 - 2011-11-08 05:01:42 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Then what is the difference between warp to zero and warp to 15 if you are AFK. None, except for the reduced traveling time but as you're AFK it makes no difference.

Okay, there seems to be some confusion here.

You're comparing potentially-buffed future Autopilot to current autopilot, then pointing out that it's a buff.

Uhh... Yes?

That's the whole point of this debate, to make autopilot more viable. Nobody's denying that autopilot would be better after this proposed change. Autopilot in its current state is useless to all but a small group. The desire is to make it useful for EVERYBODY, primarily by reducing the tedium factor for pilots who are actively "at the wheel".

So given that, we have to ask, what are the potential drawbacks of this change? THAT'S what we're discussing. If you're suggesting that there'd be no reason not to autopilot after this change.. no ****. The question is if AFK autopiloting would somehow be overpowered after the change. The answer is no, not really, because you'd still be AFK. AFK autopiloting would be merely stupid instead of suicidal.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2011-11-08 05:03:37 UTC
If anything the whole game should become warp to 10km again.

Wrap to zero was a terrible change, I understand and defended it as insta bookmarks was more of a problem. But by now they could of fixed it and replaced it with a working system.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Dirgeweaver
Doomheim
#118 - 2011-11-08 05:06:07 UTC
I'll go on record to just say inclusion of warp to zero was the single biggest mistake CCP made.
Black Dranzer
#119 - 2011-11-08 05:06:49 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Wrap to zero was a terrible change

I might be in favor of "warp accuracy" because it'd open up potentially interesting gameplay changes, but as long as WTZ is here, we should have APWTZ.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2011-11-08 05:49:48 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Wrap to zero was a terrible change

I might be in favor of "warp accuracy" because it'd open up potentially interesting gameplay changes, but as long as WTZ is here, we should have APWTZ.


If you want to fly safe you have to be at your computer.

Unless your saying warp to zero autopilot for low sec only or something. Since people can place bubbles there.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg