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DED Combat Site Rewards Broken

Author
Smegmeister
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-06-22 23:13:57 UTC
Guys,

I need your help to drum up some support so CCP will fix this broken reward system. Given the skill and assets you need to put on the line to run these sites the frequency of the pay outs is very poor. I personally run five accounts and cyno in a carrier with the ships I need often in hostile territory. I know it's random but to run nine 8/10's in a row and get nothing seems wrong to me.

So here's the issue

7/10 - No issues, they are fine as they are.

8/10 - The drop rate on these is ridiculous. I have run aprox 25 of these and only once did it drop the good loots. This seems like a broken reward system given the difficulty of the last room and the structure grind.

9/10' - Doesn't actually exist, it's an escalation.

10/10' - I have scanned literally hundreds if not thousands of systems and only found two of these. The one site I was in a position to complete only dropped 400 mil. The mammoth and megathron structures could not be broken with a macharial and thorax which is what I had available at the time.

So looking at this the only site you are likely to find that will drop you any loot is the 7/10 and even then you may have to scan for a couple of hours before finding one.

If like me you feel the DED reward system is broken please add your support to this thread and maybe CCP will pay attention.

Smeg
Frazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-22 23:56:24 UTC
I wholeheartedly agree that the system is broken and has been that way for years. CCP, please fix this!
Tara Nagos
District 16
#3 - 2013-06-23 00:03:59 UTC
Random is random. /thread
Smegmeister
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-06-23 00:22:06 UTC
Tara Nagos wrote:
Random is random. /thread


Randomly awful.

The sample size I have gone through is enough to demonstrate th drop ratio is very very low on these. With no 9/10 and 8/10's that very rarely drop anything it leaves few options for running DED sites.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#5 - 2013-06-23 01:00:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Smegmeister wrote:
Tara Nagos wrote:
Random is random. /thread


Randomly awful.

The sample size I have gone through is enough to demonstrate th drop ratio is very very low on these. With no 9/10 and 8/10's that very rarely drop anything it leaves few options for running DED sites.


How is it any different from any other region. There are only 2 deds that are easily found in each highsec region. Lowsec deds I often have to scan half of the entirety of serpentis lowsec to find the of the 2 or 3 ded 5 sigs on rotation, and its often being done at the time.

The longest streak of not finding a ded 4 for me was more than 100 jumps, 80 something systems (counting reverses).

if you buy ded 10s off your corp mates that don't want to do them (they get them from sanctums), you should have a solid supply of them.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#6 - 2013-06-23 03:29:32 UTC
So how does the five accounts and carrier thingy factor in? should there be more 'reward' for this?

Anyway. Look at this from another viewpoint. If we all would suddenly start finding shiney stuff more often, do you think that this shiney stuff would retain its price? After all the value of modules that solely come from exploration is determined more by scarcity (well maybe not stuff from the revised prof sites), than demand.

There is one thing i could agree on however - completion times of ded plexes. An average highsec ded 4 takes only a couple of minutes, the harder plexes need more time. It is no wonder that people would rather do highsec complexes in immunity.
0mni Ca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-06-23 05:46:40 UTC
I am just a regular tax paying player, and I agree with this message. The risk/reward is not weighed correctly with the escalating difficulty of the DED's.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-06-23 08:42:38 UTC
0mni Ca wrote:
I am just a regular tax paying player, and I agree with this message. The risk/reward is not weighed correctly with the escalating difficulty of the DED's.


The root cause of that problem is not the loot that drops in difficult deds, its sheer number of cruiser sized ship classes in this game leading to cruiser class module demand.
Mother Drone
Transcendent Breed
#9 - 2013-06-23 09:59:58 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
0mni Ca wrote:
I am just a regular tax paying player, and I agree with this message. The risk/reward is not weighed correctly with the escalating difficulty of the DED's.


The root cause of that problem is not the loot that drops in difficult deds, its sheer number of cruiser sized ship classes in this game leading to cruiser class module demand.


The demand for cruiser sized modules is only half the problem. Loot table is the other half.
Look at possible deadspace loot from Blood Raider/Sansha 7,8 and 9/10 DEDs.
http://www.eve-central.com/home/typesearch.html?search=centus+c-type for 7/10
and
http://www.eve-central.com/home/typesearch.html?search=centus+a-type for 9/10.

The only real loot of value is a pirate faction BS BPC and an a-type armor repairer. Compare this to guristas 4/10 DEDs in terms of completion times, risk, availability, required ships/fitting/skills ...


Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#10 - 2013-06-23 10:25:54 UTC
There are 60 buyers a day for the pithum c-type items. There are 5 buyers a day for each of the centus c-type items. Just not enough tasks for pimp battleship fits. it is all about the demand.
Chief Ambassador
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-06-23 14:36:44 UTC
The risk vs reward on the DED's do not seem even close to me.

I see most run them with 3-4Bil Machs, this just does not add up.

It another example of the CCP hampster wheel of isk. run,run,run little hampster, spend your hours.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#12 - 2013-06-23 15:26:52 UTC
The system isn't broken it's just been adjusted. Rated DEDs are fine because at the very least you get the OSE drop...Unrated?...yeah those are a waste of time anymore. That RNG lands on NOTHING too often and Tags/Ammo fills the other 95% of the drop table.
Smegmeister
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-06-23 16:21:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Smegmeister
Chief Ambassador wrote:
The risk vs reward on the DED's do not seem even close to me.

I see most run them with 3-4Bil Machs, this just does not add up.

It another example of the CCP hampster wheel of isk. run,run,run little hampster, spend your hours.



You nailed it 100% with your comment.

When I was PVP'ing I put everything into it and am now doing the same with DED's (haven't pvp'd in a month) so feel I have given this a fair shot and it's obviously broken. I'm putting billions on the line every time I run one of these things and most times I'm lucky if I have covered the cost of amo. I'm sorry CCP this is not good enough. Please fix the 8/10's and give us a true 9/10.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2013-06-23 22:13:27 UTC
Smegmeister wrote:
to run nine 8/10's in a row and get nothing seems wrong to me.


Hardly an adequate sample size

Quote:


7/10 - No issues, they are fine as they are.


Okay.

Quote:
8/10 - The drop rate on these is ridiculous. I have run aprox 25 of these and only once did it drop the good loots. This seems like a broken reward system given the difficulty of the last room and the structure grind.


Bad luck, keep trying. I see plenty of b-type loot on the market right now so drops must be fine.

Quote:
9/10' - Doesn't actually exist, it's an escalation.


Wrong. CCP has identified staging oint as a DED 9/10. It sucks that they refused to add more content but it does act exactly as a DED 9/10 would (aside from the 2 escalations); guaranteed overseer effects + chance at a-type large.
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2013-06-23 22:13:33 UTC
Quote:
10/10' - I have scanned literally hundreds if not thousands of systems and only found two of these.


Ever heard of competiton? The problem is that you're not understanding that you're not running an instanced game. Competition is a major variable when it comes to exploration and the simple fact is other people are finding the site and you're not. Try cherry picking if you really want to find a 10/10 (while you're running sites like 7-9/10s, there could be 10/10s that other people are finding).

Quote:
The one site I was in a position to complete only dropped 400 mil. The mammoth and megathron structures could not be broken with a macharial and thorax which is what I had available at the time.


Bad luck. Welcome to exploration

Quote:
Smeg


Hi Smeg, thanks for signing your post. If only there was a location I could find the author of the OP, then you wouldn't need to sign your post.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#16 - 2013-06-23 22:21:16 UTC
Lowsec (Angel space), 4 to 6/10 looks fine for me.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-06-24 09:56:57 UTC
Willie Horton
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-24 12:25:35 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
There are 60 buyers a day for the pithum c-type items. There are 5 buyers a day for each of the centus c-type items. Just not enough tasks for pimp battleship fits. it is all about the demand.


This is best answer about this issue.

Market dictates prices not is DED 4/10 easy to do or DED 10/10 hard .Simply modules that drop in those sites have high demand and that is all about that.

Point is you can only blame market not loot tables.Caldari space DED sites modules are too good,and maybe some rebalance in stats would fix prices.You have few modules in Serpentis space that are good but not even close to Gurista ones.It is even worse if you go and do Sansha and Angel ones.

Mission runners and ratters mostly fly shield tanked ships ,and all of them like to have those shiny invul fields that drop in Caldari space.If current meta changes in favor of armor ships maybe we will see changes in prices.
Acacia Eden
New Eden's Logistic Incorporated
#19 - 2013-06-25 06:56:48 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:

I see plenty of b-type loot on the market right now so drops must be fine.


Funny.
I have billions worth of DED modules on Market for like 2 months.
I sell them with my station trade character and adjust the price twice a day.

Some of them just never sells.
Czeris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-06-25 08:08:48 UTC
Yes, let's make DEDs easier and the loot drop more frequently so it becomes worthless like stuff from data/relic sites.

That was sarcasm, btw.

I'd honestly love to see some DED 11 and 12s that require more than one player (not account), have an element of risk, and require actual thought past when the guide goes up on Evelopedia.
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