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The tutorials give the wrong impressions about the game

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Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-06-23 22:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari Citizen 20120308
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:



It feels like that yes, join faction warfare and do offensive/defensive plexing (novice sites) and earn lp -- use that lp to purchase/sell faction things on the market. Good income along with some pvp action. If you don't want the pvp action, just warp off until the hostile(s) leave?

0.0 for ratting / exploration


because every PvP combat I've run across the enemy have jammed my warp drive then shot me.

Also doesn't faction warfare destroy your standing with other factions. I don't want to walk off even more of the map.


Reviewing the killboards this character has only lost a caracal. With 600k sp you should stay with frigs atm. And plexing in fw sites in a frig you have a good chance to warp off in novice/small/med sites. Just use your dscan when characters come into the sytem :) cheers.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2013-06-23 22:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game
You can.
It's just that, in EVE, you are not entitled to any kind of achievement or success — you have to actually make it happen yourself, and the game won't make it happen for you, or even help you along the way.

This design is entirely intentional.
Jimmy Morane
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-06-23 22:42:49 UTC
Steve WingYip wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game

I've finished the tutorials, carrer and sisters of eve arc with 600,000 SP yet I find myself unable to gain enough ISK to do anything. After losing a few ships in low sec I find myself unable to even aford a cruiser and am having to grind badly paying level 2 missions and mining 6 hours a day and yet barely achieving anything. Trading seems to have been designed for (and played by) actual workers in the stock market.

Mining pays about 1m isk an hour and tier 2 missions about the same. Yet a fully ensured and equibed cruiser is going to cost up to 15m.

Really the only way to achieve anything in this game seems just to buy and sell PLEX. And I'm not paying £15+ just to able to do things in game.

No wonder most people only play this game for a month


This seems like a QQ I died and lost my stuff, rather than a critique of the tutorials.


Yes, and there was a similar post yesterday with the guy that said you had to have all 4 and 5 levels skills to do anything in the game and that meant ccp was hamstringing him. And, also similar, that guy just kept fending off any suggestions given to him.
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#24 - 2013-06-23 22:54:10 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game

I've finished the tutorials, carrer and sisters of eve arc with 600,000 SP yet I find myself unable to gain enough ISK to do anything. After losing a few ships in low sec I find myself unable to even aford a cruiser and am having to grind badly paying level 2 missions and mining 6 hours a day and yet barely achieving anything. Trading seems to have been designed for (and played by) actual workers in the stock market.

Mining pays about 1m isk an hour and tier 2 missions about the same. Yet a fully ensured and equibed cruiser is going to cost up to 15m.

Really the only way to achieve anything in this game seems just to buy and sell PLEX. And I'm not paying £15+ just to able to do things in game.

No wonder most people only play this game for a month

Why didn't you do some research or come and ask here in the forums before immediately jumping to whining? There are plenty of things you can do. From your attitude I have a feeling you wont be lasting long though, and any advice given will be simply wasted breath.
Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-06-23 22:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Caldari Citizen 20120308
Tippia wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game
You can.
It's just that, in EVE, you are not entitled to any kind of achievement or success — you have to actually make it happen yourself, and the game won't make it happen for you, or even help you along the way.

This design is entirely intentional.



I agree you're not entitled to achievements or success but do not agree with "the game won't make it happen for you." You pay for a service monthly which is playing an mmo and interacting with other players, and part of that service is providing players the tools necessary to become successful and the ability to obtain or furnish your own success within the confines of the game. If this wasn't the case I'm sure a ton of players would leave in mass herds elsewhere.
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#26 - 2013-06-23 23:01:05 UTC
Sebastian N Cain wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:


Then explain how I saw someone with a battleship after 10 days or another with a 30m mining barge after 16 days?

Alts or Plex.

Almost certainly a noob who bought it with a PLEX. A ten day old player has no business being in a battleship, they will barely be able to fit any of the guns.
Jeffrey Asher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-06-23 23:01:32 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game

I've finished the tutorials, carrer and sisters of eve arc with 600,000 SP yet I find myself unable to gain enough ISK to do anything. After losing a few ships in low sec I find myself unable to even aford a cruiser and am having to grind badly paying level 2 missions and mining 6 hours a day and yet barely achieving anything. Trading seems to have been designed for (and played by) actual workers in the stock market.

Mining pays about 1m isk an hour and tier 2 missions about the same. Yet a fully ensured and equibed cruiser is going to cost up to 15m.

Really the only way to achieve anything in this game seems just to buy and sell PLEX. And I'm not paying £15+ just to able to do things in game.

No wonder most people only play this game for a month


I am currently up to the stage of running T2 missions and salvaging 1.5-3 mil per mission, admittedly 3mil is a very good one and doesn't happen every time but the 1.5 does, on top of the mission payment. So I'd say start salvaging your missions straight away and you'll earn a lot more.

In the one month I have played, I have bought entirely by myself a Retriever to mine with, makes much more than 1mil/hour even mining in 0.8-1 sec systems, a Vexor to lvl 2 mission and a couple of Catalysts with different fits ready to go for anything fun, plus some frigates fitted out with T1 gear.

Definitely study more on how to make ISK efficiently and train salvage if you do not have it - even better, depending on race, are salvage drones as they don't take up a weapon slot.

The other point I would make is you can achieve whatever you want in this game, you probably need to work out what it is that you want to achieve and start training towards it - if it's PVP then you probably need to training something else first to make the money to fund losing a lot of ships for a while, mining fits that bill if you train it up and get a barge.

Good luck with it, I hope you stick with it and enjoy and hopefully I'll get to vs you one day in PVP.

The power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you can't kill then you are always subject to those who can, and nothing and no one will ever save you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2013-06-23 23:06:07 UTC
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:
I agree you're not entitled to achievements or success but do not agree with "the game won't make it happen for you." You pay for a service monthly which is playing an mmo and interacting with other players, and part of that service is providing players the tools necessary to become successful and the ability to obtain or furnish your own success within the confines of the game. If this wasn't the case I'm sure a ton of players would leave in mass herds elsewhere.
Oh, sure, but there's a difference between having the tools to do something spectacular and having the game perform spectacles for you.

My point is EVE does the former, not the latter — any spectacle that occurs will be entirely of your own (or other players') making. This is entirely intentional.
Sensui-kan
#29 - 2013-06-23 23:07:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game
You can.
It's just that, in EVE, you are not entitled to any kind of achievement or success — you have to actually make it happen yourself, and the game won't make it happen for you, or even help you along the way.

This design is entirely intentional.


There are no winners in video games, no accomplishments, you should reflect on that.
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#30 - 2013-06-23 23:09:15 UTC
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game
You can.
It's just that, in EVE, you are not entitled to any kind of achievement or success — you have to actually make it happen yourself, and the game won't make it happen for you, or even help you along the way.

This design is entirely intentional.



I agree you're not entitled to achievements or success but do not agree with "the game won't make it happen for you." You pay for a service monthly which is playing an mmo and interacting with other players, and part of that service is providing players the tools necessary to become successful and the ability to obtain or furnish your own success within the confines of the game. If this wasn't the case I'm sure a ton of players would leave in mass herds elsewhere.

There is a big difference between "providing the tools for you" and "hand holding and making things happen for you". CCP leaves the tools for you at the bottom of a rusty pile of scrap in the back yard, and then makes you find them. To be fair they have done a lot though to improve the new player experience. The recent overhaul of exploration jumps to mind as being pretty much ideal for now players.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2013-06-23 23:12:46 UTC
Quick Gratification.


It does not happen here.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Mytai Gengod
Sebees
#32 - 2013-06-23 23:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mytai Gengod
I can see how the game can cause frustration, it is based on a different time scale and approach than many other popular MMO's. You do have to be patient early on, but there are some options.

1. Obviously you mentioned trading. Instead of trying to play the .1 isk station game, haul between systems/regions. Go to lower pop areas and note pricing on different items. Then either buy and bring back to sell in your "home" region or buy from your home and take it there to sell. This is doable everyday, on any scale and a safe and reliable source.

2. But that can get boring to some. Use agent finder to find a corp of NPC agents that has levels up to 4 in your general area. Grind those until you can do level 3's. 3's don't make you rich, but they do provide enough income to get established and prepare for 4's.

3. Do some exploration. I did with close to the same skill points as you and got lucky on a couple of sites. I haven't done it since the latest patch but I understand it is easier now. Prices are reporting to drop for loot but I am betting those prices are still decent for new players.

4. Faction warfare. I have not done it (yet), but I understand you can make decent isk using cheap frigs. Also learning pvp.

5. Check markets for a certain set of items (lower end minnie ship hulls, ammo, etc.) Depending on how many you watch and how often you check you will find quick sellers regularly. Buy and sell.

6. Don't mine unless you really like it. That will burn you out quicker than anything.

7. Join a decent corp. Many will help you get on your feet.

There's a ton more. Many don't realize the options available since the game doesn't hold your hand like other MMO's.

Good luck and safe travels.
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-06-23 23:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit McJafitson
Dear newfriend

Read about Evian Drinker

You, dear newbro, just because you can't yet go head to head with everybody doesn't mean that you can't make a difference. Your little Rifter, or whatever's your T1 frigate of choice, is an asset to any fleet or gang smart enough to let you join them. You are small, fast and cheap, you can be the eyes and ears of the fleet, you can be the point of the spear, you can be the small fast tackle that pins down a ship worth billions and holds him for the big guns to show up.

But you can even make a difference alone, let me tell you about wheniaminspace. - this guy flies around nullsec, in a T1 fit Thrasher, just killing people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsrq0PxiU-8

You can do this too.

Here's a 19 day skillplan for a wheniaminspace trasher

Have fun.

Also try joining Red Vs Blue, or factional warfare or something.

As for making money... try this
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ninja_Salvaging

Or try scamming people. it's like PvP, but with words. Their greed is your warp scrambler, your lies are your autocannons.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#34 - 2013-06-24 00:08:43 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game

I've finished the tutorials, carrer and sisters of eve arc with 600,000 SP yet I find myself unable to gain enough ISK to do anything. After losing a few ships in low sec I find myself unable to even aford a cruiser and am having to grind badly paying level 2 missions and mining 6 hours a day and yet barely achieving anything. Trading seems to have been designed for (and played by) actual workers in the stock market.

Mining pays about 1m isk an hour and tier 2 missions about the same. Yet a fully ensured and equibed cruiser is going to cost up to 15m.

Really the only way to achieve anything in this game seems just to buy and sell PLEX. And I'm not paying £15+ just to able to do things in game.

No wonder most people only play this game for a month


600k lp is really nothing.
You should spend more time understanding the game, and how to make isk, before you go losing ships you can't fly well.

This is the single biggest mistake in the game. People want instant pvp, but don't understand it takes time and isk to do it well. If you can't afford plex to fund your game play style, then you need to learn about isk generation first.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-06-24 00:10:25 UTC
Pro tip of the day, Don't put all of your eggs into lowsec.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#36 - 2013-06-24 00:12:21 UTC
This dude has been complaining for a month now that he can't train Winning V.
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#37 - 2013-06-24 00:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Setaceous
Mr. Orange wrote:

Hmmm... I'll help you out.

- Buy yourself a T1 frigate.
- Training salvaging and buy salvagers.
- Go to a busy L4 mission system.
- Ask in local if anyone is running missions and not bothering to salvage.
- Fleet up with the player(s).
- Explode and die
- Rage on forums

ftfy
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#38 - 2013-06-24 00:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dun'Gal
Mr. Orange wrote:


Hmmm... I'll help you out.

- Buy yourself a T1 frigate.
- Training salvaging and buy salvagers.
- Go to a busy L4 mission system.
- Ask in local if anyone is running missions and not bothering to salvage.
- Fleet up with the player(s).
- Start collecting loot/salvage.
- Profit.

This will earn you ISK fast...


This

Edit: In fact after a month of this you can probably even afford to start plexing your account AND if the mission runner is particularly nice, you may even have the standings you need to run level 4's on your own.
Sir Mack Inawrex
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS
#39 - 2013-06-24 01:22:23 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
With 600k SP, you probably don't have the skills to fly a cruiser well.

Consider the following advice: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

You can't afford to lose cruisers, so it follows that... ?


You can put a competent frigate fit together for under 1m ISK.


yeah everyone tells me that but no-one says how to make the money to recover their costs.


http://greedygoblin.blogspot.co.uk/ is a fantastic site that shares a lot of grat, easy ways to make some iskies. Check the links to other money-making blogs at the bottom of the page too, there's some great tidbits of info there.

I'm certianly not space-rich but Gevlon's advice has significantly boosted the enjoyablity of EvE for me by showing me ways of getting a decent amount of cash in relatively little time.

"…but now only one beacon of light survives.  A stubborn world that dared to defy Mintchip, Lord of the Lollipops."
Lidam
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-06-24 01:31:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidam
Paul Otichoda wrote:
They give the impression that you can actually achieve something in this game

I've finished the tutorials, carrer and sisters of eve arc with 600,000 SP yet I find myself unable to gain enough ISK to do anything. After losing a few ships in low sec I find myself unable to even aford a cruiser and am having to grind badly paying level 2 missions and mining 6 hours a day and yet barely achieving anything. Trading seems to have been designed for (and played by) actual workers in the stock market.

Mining pays about 1m isk an hour and tier 2 missions about the same. Yet a fully ensured and equibed cruiser is going to cost up to 15m.

Really the only way to achieve anything in this game seems just to buy and sell PLEX. And I'm not paying £15+ just to able to do things in game.

No wonder most people only play this game for a month


Holy ****, the sense of entitlement coming from this post is overwhelming. If you can't achieve anything in this game, how do you explain that I'm barely 2 weeks older than you and have 1.2b from trading? I was making 40-50m a day when I was two weeks old. It's not impossible. Some other guy and I even gave you advice on the newbie forums which was pretty extensive save for telling you exactly what to buy (even there if you simply asked I could have given you a few tips).

Nothing is going to come easy in this game. But if you set goals and are willing to put actual time and effort into something, then you will go far.