These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why We Should Support Off Grid Boosting

Author
Boudhi Emmett
Doomheim
#201 - 2013-06-23 14:14:49 UTC
I don't know much about boosting mechanics, as I've never used them, so just my 2 cents idea.
I do remember that CCP did say that bring boosting on-grid is challenging due to limitations of the game engine or something to that effect. So why not make boosting modules unable to activate while within a POS shield or within a certain range of the POS/shield and also while cloaked. As for being unprobeable why not add a sensor strength reduction to every boosting module, say 2% perhaps. Then it will be easier to probe down a boosting ship, but still need good scanning skills and ship to do so.

So boosting can stay off-grid but will be riskier so to say. (Risk vs reward I guess)
Any thoughts?
Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2013-06-23 14:53:45 UTC
Where were you when they announced Off-Grid boosting will be booted in the head?

Quote:
'pay to win'


Check your facts. there's only Pay To Play and Pay To Lose in EVE Online. THE WIN IS A LIE.

on a serious note: I too support off-grid boosting FOR SOLO OR SMALL GANGS, UP TO 4 OR 5 CHARACTERS IN ONE FLEET. bigger fleets should not get off-grid boosts. If you can manage that, CCP, you win 9,001 internet.

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#203 - 2013-06-23 15:06:25 UTC
Boudhi Emmett wrote:
I don't know much about boosting mechanics, as I've never used them, so just my 2 cents idea.
I do remember that CCP did say that bring boosting on-grid is challenging due to limitations of the game engine or something to that effect. So why not make boosting modules unable to activate while within a POS shield or within a certain range of the POS/shield and also while cloaked. As for being unprobeable why not add a sensor strength reduction to every boosting module, say 2% perhaps. Then it will be easier to probe down a boosting ship, but still need good scanning skills and ship to do so.

So boosting can stay off-grid but will be riskier so to say. (Risk vs reward I guess)
Any thoughts?


Interesting perspective... Familiar too... Blink

Hmmmm....
Quote:
First off, to mitigate the invulnerability factor, most highslot modules have a lock which prevents them functioning within the bounds of a POS shield, apply that to ganglinks and you force the booster outside the POS shield, you make everything inside the shield outside the fight and push the benefits of ganglink boosts towards an active player rather than an AFK alt.

Next, to reduce the number of links people are likely to fit and therefore make the boosts a little more distributed, I would suggest adding a sensor strength penalty to Command Processors - making the OGB easier to probe out the greater its effect on the fight.
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#204 - 2013-06-23 16:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical Chaos
Alua Oresson wrote:
Logical Chaos wrote:
Just leaving this here:

Removal of OGB will result in more blobs, because at the moment if you have a smaller group of pilots (or even solo) but with a booster you can engage all those pesky blobbers while without this tool you are simply left to join one of the blobber's corps and blob by yourself.

Will be quite entertaining for sure


Newsflash, the blobbers have boosts too.

Source: I'm in a 100+ person fleet and am boosting offgrid.

I'm all for the removal of offgrid boosting. On grid boosting would mean that the job is not an "alt" job anymore, and that people that are boosting actually participate in the fight.


Then question yourself the following: Who will be hurt more when OGB is removed: The 100man gang that can easily field a Command Ship or the solo/small gang pvper? So whats the outcome? I'm eager to hear about that!

Boudhi Emmett wrote:
I don't know much about boosting mechanics, as I've never used them, so just my 2 cents idea.
I do remember that CCP did say that bring boosting on-grid is challenging due to limitations of the game engine or something to that effect. So why not make boosting modules unable to activate while within a POS shield or within a certain range of the POS/shield and also while cloaked. As for being unprobeable why not add a sensor strength reduction to every boosting module, say 2% perhaps. Then it will be easier to probe down a boosting ship, but still need good scanning skills and ship to do so.

So boosting can stay off-grid but will be riskier so to say. (Risk vs reward I guess)
Any thoughts?



You can NOT Boost while being cloaked. This came up in this thread multiple times and shows that people who have no idea try to argue about this topic (you at least stated this in your post).

Regarding the probing: It is possible to probe T3s with Sensor Strength > Sig Radius already. THAT is the counter: Expanded Probe Launcher I!
Roxxo I'doCocaine
Doomheim
#205 - 2013-06-23 16:50:09 UTC
Quote:
Greetings

Firstly


Stopped reading at this point.
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#206 - 2013-06-23 16:53:37 UTC
Quote:
Next, to reduce the number of links people are likely to fit and therefore make the boosts a little more distributed, I would suggest adding a sensor strength penalty to Command Processors - making the OGB easier to probe out the greater its effect on the fight.


You CAN already probe those "unprobable" T3s. Please do not expect to do this with Astrometrics III.
Boudhi Emmett
Doomheim
#207 - 2013-06-23 18:25:59 UTC
Logical Chaos wrote:
You can NOT Boost while being cloaked. This came up in this thread multiple times and shows that people who have no idea try to argue about this topic (you at least stated this in your post).

Regarding the probing: It is possible to probe T3s with Sensor Strength > Sig Radius already. THAT is the counter: Expanded Probe Launcher I!


Cool did not know this. So you can't be cloaked while boosting and good skills with a proper fit will scan down an "unprobable ship", then are people just mad that they sit/AFK in a POS?
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#208 - 2013-06-23 18:33:16 UTC
Boudhi Emmett wrote:
Logical Chaos wrote:
You can NOT Boost while being cloaked. This came up in this thread multiple times and shows that people who have no idea try to argue about this topic (you at least stated this in your post).

Regarding the probing: It is possible to probe T3s with Sensor Strength > Sig Radius already. THAT is the counter: Expanded Probe Launcher I!


Cool did not know this. So you can't be cloaked while boosting and good skills with a proper fit will scan down an "unprobable ship", then are people just mad that they sit/AFK in a POS?


No people are mad that they cannot be bothered to probe a T3 and therefore say its invincible (which is only true for POSes).
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#209 - 2013-06-23 18:43:16 UTC
Boudhi Emmett wrote:
Logical Chaos wrote:
You can NOT Boost while being cloaked. This came up in this thread multiple times and shows that people who have no idea try to argue about this topic (you at least stated this in your post).

Regarding the probing: It is possible to probe T3s with Sensor Strength > Sig Radius already. THAT is the counter: Expanded Probe Launcher I!


Cool did not know this. So you can't be cloaked while boosting and good skills with a proper fit will scan down an "unprobable ship", then are people just mad that they sit/AFK in a POS?

The main problems are twofold. First being the large bonuses provided in themselves and second being the ability to provide such bonuses without being on the battlefield.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#210 - 2013-06-23 18:50:33 UTC
A friend of mine recently joined a major nulsec alliance.

He reported that he was surprised to find out that there are many people that specialize in probing-out the so-called un-probe-able ships. Max skills, full Virtue sets, etc. Enough of them that a FC can call upon them whenever needed.

The ships may be hard to probe, but like most things in EVE, there is a counter to them.
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#211 - 2013-06-23 18:54:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical Chaos
Tau Cabalander wrote:
A friend of mine recently joined a major nulsec alliance.

He reported that he was surprised to find out that there are many people that specialize in probing-out the so-called un-probe-able ships. Max skills, full Virtue sets, etc. Enough of them that a FC can call upon them whenever needed.

The ships may be hard to probe, but like most things in EVE, there is a counter to them.


Please note, ladies and gentlemen! Somebody got the point! By the way: The new Midslot-probingModules actually mean its even easier to probe those pesky T3s by the way. And on top of that the new probing system!

Destination SkillQueue wrote:

The main problems are twofold. First being the large bonuses provided in themselves and second being the ability to provide such bonuses without being on the battlefield.


I agree that on field Boosts should be more powerful. Especially with the new T2 Bonus Modules the boosts provided are quite large now. I think the T3 sub should probably not give a bonus to these mods at all or at least lower than CS's bonus.
Kewso
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#212 - 2013-06-23 19:01:54 UTC
Down with Buffbots!


Don't turn Eve into Dark age of Camelot where everyone requires a buffbot to compete
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2013-06-23 19:16:54 UTC
So much mad and self-righteousness in this thread.
Zircon Dasher
#214 - 2013-06-23 19:24:37 UTC
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
So much mad and self-righteousness in this thread.


You forgot Derp

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#215 - 2013-06-23 19:30:02 UTC
OGB breaks the Risk vs Reward bell curve. That alone means it should be stopped. No other argument matters.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#216 - 2013-06-23 20:00:47 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
OGB breaks the Risk vs Reward bell curve. That alone means it should be stopped. No other argument matters.

Oh that solves it.

Next up, highsec income.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Zeus Zed
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2013-06-23 20:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeus Zed
Benjen Gelade wrote:
Greetings

Firstly, thank you for clicking on my thread. It is very important that everyone reads this and understands the situation.

I fully support the existence of off grid boosting. The reasons for this are many, but I have tried to summarise the main arguments below.

The Mining Argument

In EVE it is not convenient for miners to use mining boosts on grid. The only way for them to mine properly is for them to have a Rorqual provide boosts, at zero risk, from inside POS shields. It is totally unreasonable to ask them to risk in game assets. Everybody in the know agrees on this.

As OGB must remain for mining purposes, it therefore must remain for combat purposes. The reason for this is because CCP cannot code a new 'role bonus' for the Rorqual, allowing it to be the only ship that can provide system wide links, and only for mining links.


This is one of those occasions where the "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" argument fits perfectly. Your whole post revolved around that lousy mining argument of buhuhu Rorqual is expensive....

OGB is going to go, deal with it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#218 - 2013-06-23 20:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Zeus Zed wrote:
Benjen Gelade wrote:
Greetings

Firstly, thank you for clicking on my thread. It is very important that everyone reads this and understands the situation.

I fully support the existence of off grid boosting. The reasons for this are many, but I have tried to summarise the main arguments below.

The Mining Argument

In EVE it is not convenient for miners to use mining boosts on grid. The only way for them to mine properly is for them to have a Rorqual provide boosts, at zero risk, from inside POS shields. It is totally unreasonable to ask them to risk in game assets. Everybody in the know agrees on this.

As OGB must remain for mining purposes, it therefore must remain for combat purposes. The reason for this is because CCP cannot code a new 'role bonus' for the Rorqual, allowing it to be the only ship that can provide system wide links, and only for mining links.


This is one of those occasions where the "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" argument fits perfectly. Your whole post revolved around that lousy mining argument of buhuhu Rorqual is expensive....

OGB is going to go, deal with it.

I think you're missing the humor here.
Benjen Gelade wrote:
The only way for them to mine properly is for them to have a Rorqual provide boosts, at zero risk, from inside POS shields. It is totally unreasonable to ask them to risk in game assets. Everybody in the know agrees on this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Aldap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#219 - 2013-06-23 20:35:12 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
The mere fact you people defend the existence of off grid boosting by using solo PvP as justification is pretty hilarious. First, there is nothing solo about it, if you're using multiple characters at the same time. Second, if using boosters has truly come to the point, that solo players feel they can't fight without using one, it's just one more reason to let OGB die in a fire.
Yeah, more or less +1 this. Its just time to let OGB die, its been due, get it done.

An interesting article about Solo PvP: http://themittani.com/features/new-eden-solo

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#220 - 2013-06-23 20:41:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:


Next up, highsec income.


for me the main income i get from 0.0 is doing complexes where i get special drops of faction/deadspace gear and i can then bring it to jita and sell for a profit. i dont need to make more then people in high sec because i can get stuff in null sec that they cant in high sec without the market.

if you reduce the amount of isk high sec players make then you also reduce the amount of isk i can make from selling deadspace gear.

you dont need to nerf highsec income you just need to boost active farming commodities drops in 0.0 belts annoms and complexes.

WH space is a great example of this.

one idea could be:

adding moon mins to hauler spawns and increasing their spawn rates...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.