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Skill-Time for Plex

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Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-06-23 11:18:55 UTC
This thread again?

No to this plex for SP bull crap already you self entitled next gen/instant gratification such and such! Pay to win doesn't work and will quickly ruining EvEs unique SP system!

You want that sort of crap, go playing dust 514 as it was built around what you want other wise HTFU and be patient or quit... actually just quit and leave the system alone.Roll

_**Noob **_isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

  • Sun Tzu
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-06-23 11:19:24 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Does buying a winning soccer team mean you will still win? You have to buy in to play poker so yes you have to pay for your cards.
Buying a character is much different from buying SP. With SP it becomes PLEX for the FOTM, and that is bad it creates dissatisfaction as instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

Buying your soccer team is akin to subscribing. You still have to have ongoing training and so on. An analogy to buying characters and isk is buying off the refs so you an an advantage above and beyond the prescribed limitations.

The set limitations in EvE is skill training and isk. Buying that defeats any purposeful play.



No, the set limitation in EVE is Time. Buying a character means someone else did it, but time was still spent.

Oh please.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2013-06-23 11:35:02 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
...instant gratification leades to faster boredom.


you maybe right with the boredome, maybe it could be limited how many skill-time you can by per year for a character to keep the balance a bit better, i would have thought about 1-3 month skill-time plexable a year would be a good addition

so it would only be used to specialize a bit faster, but still makeing it impossible to purchase all skills right away

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#64 - 2013-06-23 11:41:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You do realise there are people selling characters trained specifically and perfectly for a role. They have never undocked. Its just an obfuscated way of CCP offering fully trained chars through 3rd parties.

Have you ever thought where your food comes from? It doesnt magically appear when you pay money, it takes time and effort produce raw material, process it and transport to nearest shop so it would be convenient for you to go and buy. Same with characters in EvE: time and effort were spent, you just purchase the end product.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#65 - 2013-06-23 11:41:52 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.
You don't circumvent training, you trade ISK for someone else's time in doing the training and spending their time and money.

Also you didn't answer the question, how so? How has this been breaking the game since 2004?

Quoting myself, as someone seems to want to avoid answering.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-06-23 11:51:07 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.
You don't circumvent training, you trade ISK for someone else's time in doing the training and spending their time and money.

Also you didn't answer the question, how so? How has this been breaking the game since 2004?

Someone elses time is irrelevant. A noob with RL cash can be flying a titan in less than 24 hours. A noob with none has to wait a long long time. The first noobs gets blown up he can be back in a titan in a few hours. The second a long long time. The second noob is restricted by EvEs limitations. The first ignores them entirely. Thus the game is pointless in regards to competition.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-06-23 11:55:17 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You do realise there are people selling characters trained specifically and perfectly for a role. They have never undocked. Its just an obfuscated way of CCP offering fully trained chars through 3rd parties.

Have you ever thought where your food comes from? It doesnt magically appear when you pay money, it takes time and effort produce raw material, process it and transport to nearest shop so it would be convenient for you to go and buy. Same with characters in EvE: time and effort were spent, you just purchase the end product.

What you're not factoring into that equation is the time and effort required to make that cash to purchase that food. Since you can make money out of game and buy in game money your argument falls apart. There is no equality of effort.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#68 - 2013-06-23 12:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.
You don't circumvent training, you trade ISK for someone else's time in doing the training and spending their time and money.

Also you didn't answer the question, how so? How has this been breaking the game since 2004?

Someone elses time is irrelevant. A noob with RL cash can be flying a titan in less than 24 hours. A noob with none has to wait a long long time. The first noobs gets blown up he can be back in a titan in a few hours. The second a long long time. The second noob is restricted by EvEs limitations. The first ignores them entirely. Thus the game is pointless in regards to competition.
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-06-23 12:50:28 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#70 - 2013-06-23 13:05:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.
How does it? Do they suddenly have skillz with the stuff they get? Does being a noob and owning a Titan make you uber and able to compete in Eve? I think not.

Your stance is also saying those without RL money, can go screw themselves if they wish to play. Nice.

So how has it been breaking Eve since 2004?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-06-23 13:22:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

That does nothing to make competition pointless. Once on the battlefield SP has little to do with a pilots ability to use there ship.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-06-23 15:01:27 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out £4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another £3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.
How does it? Do they suddenly have skillz with the stuff they get? Does being a noob and owning a Titan make you uber and able to compete in Eve? I think not.

Your stance is also saying those without RL money, can go screw themselves if they wish to play. Nice.

So how has it been breaking Eve since 2004?

I have answered your question multiple times. You appear incapable or unwilling to understand how buying your way with RL money in a competitive game breaks that game. I don't think further discussion will help.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
marVLs
#73 - 2013-06-23 15:16:03 UTC
Why this thread have more replays than 1 saying "no"?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#74 - 2013-06-23 15:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.
How does it? Do they suddenly have skillz with the stuff they get? Does being a noob and owning a Titan make you uber and able to compete in Eve? I think not.

Your stance is also saying those without RL money, can go screw themselves if they wish to play. Nice.

So how has it been breaking Eve since 2004?

I have answered your question multiple times. You appear incapable or unwilling to understand how buying your way with RL money in a competitive game breaks that game. I don't think further discussion will help.
Ahh I see, attack the poster instead of addressing the questions. Good move.

You suggest competition is broken simply because someone has a Titan and the char to use it. But how does simply owning those items, break competition? It obviously doesn't.

So do you honestly think that they are now uber and able to kill everyone?
Do you believe they are now invincible and no one could kill them?
Are you suggesting them even taking part, breaks competition?

For isn't the taking part and the use of the items, the time when competition you talk of take place? It can't be the competitive process of creating the items, as that has already taken place. So I must assume you mean combat PvP.
You may believe anyone can jump in a new char and Titan and rule the universe, but I'm afraid that's not how Eve works.
The taking part in combat PvP is simply that. Taking part. Unless you've found some special way to include skillz with these items, then sorry no competition is broken.

Also what about those without enough RL cash. Are you suggesting they should forget the game and not be able to play?

So as we can see it doesn't in fact break competition, the question remains.

How has it been breaking Eve since 2004?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#75 - 2013-06-23 16:03:25 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I have answered your question multiple times. You appear incapable or unwilling to understand how buying your way with RL money in a competitive game breaks that game. I don't think further discussion will help.

Maybe if you actually explained how it did and how the current mechanics accomplished this, rather than just stating that they do without anything to back up such a statement, it would be easier to understand…

…because, no, you've never answered the question. You've just repeated your baseless and unsupported assertion.

So how has it been breaking Eve since 2004?
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2013-06-23 16:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Gallifreyan
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Sometimes I post entertaining stuff. Sometimes I just post stuff.

Straight
* cleaned by ISD Gallifreyan*


if you quote someone that means you leave the words of the OP and do not change them to some weard stuff that goes on in your head, please try to make that right next time, its not that hard

by the way you are blocked mr. douchebag

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#77 - 2013-06-23 16:23:45 UTC
Examples:

Corp A has 5 players
Corp B has 5 players

Corp A wardecs corp B. 24hours later, the battles begin.

Corp A realizes they screwed up, but they have a guy with cash and a good computer that's willing to buy a character off the market that is skilled for being a full fledged T3 Booster pilot. He also buys a boosting ship and the links, and they put him in their POS or other safe locations (we'll pretend this war is in high-sec).

At this point, Corp A has an advantage over Corp B due to a RL cash transaction. Leaving OGB issues out of it, as it is just an example, how is this *not* a problem?

A lot of the other examples in the thread that are in support of such things use the idea of a newbie going out and buying a Titan.
What I see as problems are experienced players with cash being able to go and buy advantages for their corp or alliance, vs. those who can't.

Profit favors the prepared
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2013-06-23 16:30:49 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Examples:

Corp A has 5 players
Corp B has 5 players

Corp A wardecs corp B. 24hours later, the battles begin.

Corp A realizes they screwed up, but they have a guy with cash and a good computer that's willing to buy a character off the market that is skilled for being a full fledged T3 Booster pilot. He also buys a boosting ship and the links, and they put him in their POS or other safe locations (we'll pretend this war is in high-sec).

At this point, Corp A has an advantage over Corp B due to a RL cash transaction. Leaving OGB issues out of it, as it is just an example, how is this *not* a problem?

A lot of the other examples in the thread that are in support of such things use the idea of a newbie going out and buying a Titan.
What I see as problems are experienced players with cash being able to go and buy advantages for their corp or alliance, vs. those who can't.


what if we limit the time you can buy per year? what if everybody is just allowed to purchase 1-3 month of skill-time each year, that would not be that drastic and the game keeps the balance however new players could specialize faster in the game if they want

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2013-06-23 17:22:46 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Does buying a winning soccer team mean you will still win? You have to buy in to play poker so yes you have to pay for your cards.
Buying a character is much different from buying SP. With SP it becomes PLEX for the FOTM, and that is bad it creates dissatisfaction as instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

Buying your soccer team is akin to subscribing. You still have to have ongoing training and so on. An analogy to buying characters and isk is buying off the refs so you an an advantage above and beyond the prescribed limitations.

The set limitations in EvE is skill training and isk. Buying that defeats any purposeful play.



No, the set limitation in EVE is Time. Buying a character means someone else did it, but time was still spent.

Oh please.



My, what a compelling argument! You've convinced me! Time obviously doesn't matter at all in this game!

Roll
Jureth22
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2013-06-23 19:07:47 UTC
this sort of makes sense.ccp is expecting players to pay for the second character a plex just to train it.why would the entire game be free,and pay plex for training?