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Dial 911 for Concord.
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Bloody Wench
#21 - 2013-06-23 01:37:12 UTC
Untested but consider having your newb next to you in the belt.
Should concord vanish, or warp off, or whatever they do when they leave, have your newb shoot you again to bring them back.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#22 - 2013-06-23 01:42:19 UTC
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
OP; Don't forget that if someone wants to gank you, they'll just use an alt to pull Concord away from you.


But concord will be in the system, killing that alt and warping back to my spot if I were to be attacked.

Has anyone tested the response time in 0.5 if concord is in the system hiding somewhere?


TTK Concord response times

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Anti-social Tendencies
Society for Miner Education
#23 - 2013-06-23 01:52:10 UTC
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
OP; Don't forget that if someone wants to gank you, they'll just use an alt to pull Concord away from you.


But concord will be in the system, killing that alt and warping back to my spot if I were to be attacked.

Has anyone tested the response time in 0.5 if concord is in the system hiding somewhere?


You really have two issues. The first is whether manipulating Concord is an exploit.

The answer here is that using a disposable alt to gank with until your sec status gets uncomfortably low and then rolling a new one IS an exploit according to CCP. You notice my own steadily falling sec status. I shoot stuff all the time and get shot in turn by Concord. I just have to deal with the effects of ny poor status. That is legit (according to CCP).

However if you create a disposable alt just to spawn concord, using it until the sec status makes it uncomfortable, then that is considered an exploit. Ask yourself this. Is this an alt that you be keeping for a long time? Will you be training this alt up in a set of skills? Does this alt have a purpose other than spawning Concord when you mine? Unless you can answer in the affirmative on all those questions then it is an exploit.

The second issue is if this will make you any safer. If Concord is in the same belt as you are then they will respond almost instantly to an aggressive action. However, if they are spawned int the system but belong warp range, it will take them longer to arrive than if they hadn't been spawned at all. So unless you are flying shoulder to shoulder with Concord, you have non increased safety.

My advice is to tank you Ret so that it takes more than one ganker to kill you, or takes a T2 fit to do it. You coup ld also fly a Macknaw and tanks it really well. You then get the pleasure of watching several Dessie's destroy themselves against you well tanked ship. If you don't have the ISK for that, then fly a Procuror.

"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE
Lady Areola Fappington
#24 - 2013-06-23 10:59:53 UTC
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
OP; Don't forget that if someone wants to gank you, they'll just use an alt to pull Concord away from you.


But concord will be in the system, killing that alt and warping back to my spot if I were to be attacked.

Has anyone tested the response time in 0.5 if concord is in the system hiding somewhere?


Why yes my friend, we have! The New Order has done extensive research into the response times of our local interstellar constabulary.

Here's the rule: outside of 150km, CONCORD might as well be on the other side of the system. If concord is spawned already, you can add ~4-5 seconds onto the normal response time. Yes, they take longer to respond if they are in-system.

Yes, this means you can be sitting on grid with a concord spawn 151 KM away, and they will take forever to notice, turn around and warp to you in 0.5.

Back when ice belts were a thing, we would do "top/bottom/top" attacks on ice belts. Miners would feel all safe with concord sitting 300km away. Little did they know....

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Oxide Ammar
#25 - 2013-06-23 11:44:14 UTC
Lol someone should start service for this in sell orders section. Spawning CONCORD in your ice/ore belt for fee that would be brilliant.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2013-06-23 13:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Short question,

If I use an alt to spawn concord in the asteroid belt, to help prevent suicide ganks, is it considered an exploit and will CCP take action?


Also please don't gank my juicy retriever (incase gankers read this)


So you ask if exploiting an element of high sec to protect a lone Retriever due to your own sheer incompetence is actually not only tolerated but encouraged?

I feel like taking a little vacation to where you live. I'll even do you a favor by spawning Concord myself.

Here's a tip. The day you high sec players stop being lethargic and ignorant of elementary game mechanics is the day you beat us.

It's the day I take off my eyepatch and shoo my parrot Mr. Beaky off my shoulder. But until that time comes I will sacrifice thousands of Catalysts to rain down upon those whom take an already charitable handicap and complain it isn't enough. I look forward to making your Eve life truly unpleasant.

With warmest regards,

Tara,

The Terrible.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#27 - 2013-06-23 14:33:27 UTC
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Short question,

If I use an alt to spawn concord in the asteroid belt, to help prevent suicide ganks, is it considered an exploit and will CCP take action?


Also please don't gank my juicy retriever (incase gankers read this)


Given that the asshats who suicide gank on an industrial scale use alts to draw Concord AWAY from their victim by doing some bad action somewhere else in the system, and that is allowed, I see no reason for there being a problem with what you describe, not have I heard of the GM's (at least in the last few years), having any issue with it.

If it is considered an exploit to draw in Concord for protection, it is most certainly an exploit to draw Concord away.
Azurae
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-06-23 15:04:15 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
CCP Atropos
Exploits are the abuse of game mechanics in ways that were not intended or foreseen in order to gain unfair advantages over others.



I pretty much like this part of GM definition about "exploit" but then I look at all the multiboxing threads and start having that little pesky smile showing up.


multiboxing was foreseen and its not an abuse of game mechanics.
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-06-23 16:09:15 UTC
Nothing and I mean nothing you can do will prevent a determined ganker from destroying your barge.
You can spawn concord and fit a tank etc. but yeah, you're boned if they wanna kill you bad enough and know what they're doing.
Arrow
Roxxo I'doCocaine
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-06-23 16:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Roxxo I'doCocaine
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:

However if you create a disposable alt just to spawn concord, using it until the sec status makes it uncomfortable, then that is considered an exploit. Ask yourself this. Is this an alt that you be keeping for a long time? Will you be training this alt up in a set of skills? Does this alt have a purpose other than spawning Concord when you mine? Unless you can answer in the affirmative on all those questions then it is an exploit.


Meh. This is an extremely poor answer imho. You start with a simple definition (if you delete it after the sec status drops, it's an exploit) and then start expanding on that definition with additional requirements (must train skills up, must have other purposes) while providing no citations or authority for any of it.

Meanwhile, earlier in the thread, CCP is found to contradict your answer, as well as their own answers to this question. CCP Atropos in one quote sticks with the "deleting alts with poor sec = exploit" rationale and in another he adds a requirement of using disposable ships before it reaches the exploit level. CCP Grimmi seems to then confirm that recycling dispoable alts is an exploit, without needing the disposable ships element. No where does CCP bring skills or "other uses" into the equation that I can see, and so you should stop muddying the waters with whatever elements pop into your head.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3245422#post3245422
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
Lux Inter Astra
#31 - 2013-06-23 16:18:19 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Why not just tank it? Or mine in anything higher than 0.6 space?


More tank would only mean more gankers needed, but stil it was a pain to get my retriever in this system (it's surrounded by low sec). But the best part is I have a Ice belt all for myself in which I can make some easy isk at the moment.



Red frog could move it for a price,

And I highly doubt the ice belt is all yours. But good luck.


red frog doesnt move things to high sec pockets surrounded by low sec =)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2013-06-23 17:03:48 UTC
Korvus Falek wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
Why not just tank it? Or mine in anything higher than 0.6 space?


More tank would only mean more gankers needed, but stil it was a pain to get my retriever in this system (it's surrounded by low sec). But the best part is I have a Ice belt all for myself in which I can make some easy isk at the moment.



Red frog could move it for a price,

And I highly doubt the ice belt is all yours. But good luck.


red frog doesnt move things to high sec pockets surrounded by low sec =)


They might not, but one of their subsidiaries will.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Anti-social Tendencies
Society for Miner Education
#33 - 2013-06-23 18:08:49 UTC
Roxxo I'doCocaine wrote:
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:

However if you create a disposable alt just to spawn concord, using it until the sec status makes it uncomfortable, then that is considered an exploit. Ask yourself this. Is this an alt that you be keeping for a long time? Will you be training this alt up in a set of skills? Does this alt have a purpose other than spawning Concord when you mine? Unless you can answer in the affirmative on all those questions then it is an exploit.


Meh. This is an extremely poor answer imho. You start with a simple definition (if you delete it after the sec status drops, it's an exploit) and then start expanding on that definition with additional requirements (must train skills up, must have other purposes) while providing no citations or authority for any of it.

Meanwhile, earlier in the thread, CCP is found to contradict your answer, as well as their own answers to this question. CCP Atropos in one quote sticks with the "deleting alts with poor sec = exploit" rationale and in another he adds a requirement of using disposable ships before it reaches the exploit level. CCP Grimmi seems to then confirm that recycling dispoable alts is an exploit, without needing the disposable ships element. No where does CCP bring skills or "other uses" into the equation that I can see, and so you should stop muddying the waters with whatever elements pop into your head.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3245422#post3245422


Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse you. The tests that I list are my own, but the concept of not using disposable alts to manipulate concord are CCPs. So how could you demonstrate to CCP that you aren't using a disposable alt? I would suggest.
1. Show you have kept the alt for a while.
2. Show that you have invested time into training the character.
3. Sow you have done other things with the character besides spawning Concord.

Those aren't CCP rules but those would provide a defense for you.

"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE
QuakeGod
Empire Manufacturing
#34 - 2013-06-23 20:01:37 UTC
Spawning Concord in a belt that you are mining in is a perfectly legitimate tactic. Creating an alt solely for the purpose of pre-spawning Concord in a belt is also legitimate.

For those who say that you can't create an alt solely for the purpose of spawning Concord in a belt, think about this. You're saying that you can't keep creating alt's for this one sole purpose, and that it's an exploit. This would also mean that creating an alt solely for the purpose of AWOXing is an exploit. Creating an alt solely for the purpose of corporate spying is an exploit. Creating an alt solely for the purpose of scamming is an exploit.

Basically, you'd have to say that creating an alt for ANY sole purpose is considered an exploit. That simply isn't the way it works.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#35 - 2013-06-23 20:13:01 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sex Slave Girl wrote:
Short question,

If I use an alt to spawn concord in the asteroid belt, to help prevent suicide ganks, is it considered an exploit and will CCP take action?

Also please don't gank my juicy retriever (incase gankers read this)

Oh no there is a sex slave trapped in that Retriever!

Don't worry, my Catalyst will save you.

*snerk*

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#36 - 2013-06-23 22:35:47 UTC
Gealbhan wrote:
Nothing and I mean nothing you can do will prevent a determined ganker from destroying your barge.
You can spawn concord and fit a tank etc. but yeah, you're boned if they wanna kill you bad enough and know what they're doing.
Arrow


You scan two Retrievers sitting in a belt: one is tanked and the other is not. Which are you going to gank?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2013-06-24 06:21:49 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
Nothing and I mean nothing you can do will prevent a determined ganker from destroying your barge.
You can spawn concord and fit a tank etc. but yeah, you're boned if they wanna kill you bad enough and know what they're doing.
Arrow


You scan two Retrievers sitting in a belt: one is tanked and the other is not. Which are you going to gank?


Both because a gang of gankers don't always need to go in at the same time. Ship scanning is a wonderful little tool to figure out exactly what it takes to nab a target. Besides sending in teams is a much more efficient means to kill targets.

For example team one kills the tanked ship then returns. While their criminal timers refresh team two kills the other. Then onto team three or four etc etc.
Lady Areola Fappington
#38 - 2013-06-24 08:54:07 UTC
QuakeGod wrote:
Spawning Concord in a belt that you are mining in is a perfectly legitimate tactic. Creating an alt solely for the purpose of pre-spawning Concord in a belt is also legitimate.

For those who say that you can't create an alt solely for the purpose of spawning Concord in a belt, think about this. You're saying that you can't keep creating alt's for this one sole purpose, and that it's an exploit. This would also mean that creating an alt solely for the purpose of AWOXing is an exploit. Creating an alt solely for the purpose of corporate spying is an exploit. Creating an alt solely for the purpose of scamming is an exploit.

Basically, you'd have to say that creating an alt for ANY sole purpose is considered an exploit. That simply isn't the way it works.


Purposefully spawning CONCORD is sorta a weird grey area, I've had different GMs say different things.

The fatal flaw in all this, if you dedicate a char shot to concord drawing in noob ships, eventually you're going to hit -5. It becomes a smidge more difficult for your typical 'bear to operate a char like that in highsec. At that point, you have to either redeem sec status (which amounts to doing more than just pulling CONCORD), let the toon eat a char slot forever, or biomass. Biomassing is considered avoiding sec status hits, so it's actionable.


In the end, it's an excessive amount of work, for something that is trivial to remove. Gank squad sends one guy off to shoot a custom station (New Order tends to have a TON of new Knights willing to do that while training gank skills). CONCORD turns and warps away to respond. Scout reports CONCORD gone, main gank fleet undocks and proceeds with kill. When CONCORD returns to nuke gankers, you pull the spawn back off the belt and to a station, ready for next cycle.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-06-24 09:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Yummy Chocolate
why am I even in this thread?

Maybe because there's a hint of NickyYo in it?

Big smile

Miners.

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....
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