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trading bots in jita are increasing - make orders with CAPTCHA - get rid of them
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Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#21 - 2013-06-23 10:14:36 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Add kinect to EVE. Whenever no person is detected in front of the keyboard the client disconnects. This would also solve afk cloaking.
Please explain what problem there is to be solved?
What is the inherent problem of being logged in without sitting in your chair?

Please, do explain!
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-06-23 10:14:55 UTC
7of Six wrote:
hi

get rid of all trandig bots very easily

if you wanna make or change an order - a CAPTCHA of 2-3 letters appears and you can make/change orders for a period of time (maybe 30min). After that a new captcha appears. One second more work in 30min and ccp can save a lot of money pay people to hunting bots und all traders are free of bots...



If CCP really wants to get rid of those all they have to do is get those bots themselves, code a counter and permanently ban all accounts on same IP/MAC Adress/Payement method.
Not completely solved but as for miners or raters, once you get a 50 or 100 billion isk negawallet, character block for sale and permanent ban on the next run, they will calm down for sure.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#23 - 2013-06-23 10:19:15 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Add kinect to EVE. Whenever no person is detected in front of the keyboard the client disconnects. This would also solve afk cloaking.
Please explain what problem there is to be solved?
What is the inherent problem of being logged in without sitting in your chair?

Please, do explain!


Eve needs voice and gesture commands; big brother is just a bonus.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#24 - 2013-06-23 10:21:31 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Add kinect to EVE. Whenever no person is detected in front of the keyboard the client disconnects. This would also solve afk cloaking.
Please explain what problem there is to be solved?
What is the inherent problem of being logged in without sitting in your chair?

Please, do explain!

Because you are effectively botting: Playing the game without manual input. That's exactly what bots do, only those are programmed to be a bit more sophisticated.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#25 - 2013-06-23 10:28:07 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Add kinect to EVE. Whenever no person is detected in front of the keyboard the client disconnects. This would also solve afk cloaking.
Please explain what problem there is to be solved?
What is the inherent problem of being logged in without sitting in your chair?

Please, do explain!

Because you are effectively botting: Playing the game without manual input. That's exactly what bots do, only those are programmed to be a bit more sophisticated.
I put it to you, that if I am logged in but not at my computer, while reading a book or watching TV or drinking a beer, I am in fact not playing the game, but doing the other activity.
So, please, do explain.

And the botting excuse, as said, is wrong.
Azurae
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-06-23 10:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Azurae
7of Six wrote:
hi

get rid of all trandig bots very easily

if you wanna make or change an order - a CAPTCHA of 2-3 letters appears and you can make/change orders for a period of time (maybe 30min). After that a new captcha appears. One second more work in 30min and ccp can save a lot of money pay people to hunting bots und all traders are free of bots...


captchas are solveable by bots too. would be nothing more than an annoyance for all the legitimate players.

considering how much threads you are creating about how you want to change the rules in jita i can't help but think that you lost quite a lot of money on the market today. sucks to be you :P better luck next time lol

hint: stop blaming others for your incompetence or just go to another trade hub.
Mc Scam
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-06-23 10:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mc Scam
I'm not convinced that there is a significant amount of trading bots, if I remember correctly they are easy to spot for CCP and they get rid of them rather quickly. Are you exclusively trading during primetime? Because there's tons of people in- and outside of Jita updating orders.

EDIT: Here's the sec vid from the fanfest explaining bots and bans etc. , the link starts where the number, type and % of bots is shown, but the whole vid is interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vd-CpnjvAM&t=16m15s . So either there are almost no market bots or they are superstealthy and escape CCP's algorithms.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#28 - 2013-06-23 10:37:35 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
EvEa Deva wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Add kinect to EVE. Whenever no person is detected in front of the keyboard the client disconnects. This would also solve afk cloaking.


Im sure the playerbase has alot of blowup girlfriends that will fool kinect.


New Kinect uses heat-based recognition


A hairdryer?
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#29 - 2013-06-23 10:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Dantreb
You are allowed to jumpclone once per 24 hours
You are allowed to remap your attributes once per year
You are allowed to suicide kill 4 times per hour

You are allowed to update your order each 5 minutes
You are allowed to put as many orders as you can for one unique item

See the problem with market orders ?

possible solution could be :
One item, only one order.
Only 2 updates per order per 24 hours

pros :
markets bots are useless
less charge for the cluster
a clearer market

cons :
less competition
a player with many accounts can attribute orders for a same item to different characters

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#30 - 2013-06-23 10:53:00 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
OR we let the bots run wild; evening out buy/sell differentials and better converging on prices that reflect demand.

Only ones who lose are the manual .01'ers, and not a single tear was shed.


Given that you are openly supporting a method of play banned by the EULA, it would be most excellent if CCP came down on the account that contains your char with the same vengeance they come down on other botters.
Certified Accountant
Quantam Dynamic Eternal Alchemy
#31 - 2013-06-23 11:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Certified Accountant
7of Six wrote:
hi

get rid of all trandig bots very easily

if you wanna make or change an order - a CAPTCHA of 2-3 letters appears and you can make/change orders for a period of time (maybe 30min). After that a new captcha appears. One second more work in 30min and ccp can save a lot of money pay people to hunting bots und all traders are free of bots...



NO to this idea. Already too much clicking in this game and you want to add crap for us to do based on "your" problem.

Market bots have been reduced and CCP monitors. Do you have any proof to show these bots other then someone out bidding you?

Did you also state you used bots? Boggle.

Real world uses bots, its banned in EVE.

Side note recent Planet Money on this topic: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/06/14/191668134/episode-396-a-father-of-high-speed-trading-thinks-we-should-slow-down
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-06-23 11:22:12 UTC
I've often suspected I'm up against a bot, but in reality it's simply the fact that I'm trading a position on an item where the competition is strong. That's on sell orders. When it comes to region-wide buy orders, particularly for Meta 4, I have my suspicions, but even there you never know if there's a Moss from IT crowd bidding up every few minutes between counting the staples in his staple gun.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#33 - 2013-06-23 11:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
OR we let the bots run wild; evening out buy/sell differentials and better converging on prices that reflect demand.

Only ones who lose are the manual .01'ers, and not a single tear was shed.


Given that you are openly supporting a method of play banned by the EULA, it would be most excellent if CCP came down on the account that contains your char with the same vengeance they come down on other botters.


I'm merely pointing out that unlike botting in other activities (which harms the economy and player base as a whole), trade bots tend to provide a useful service by making the market more convenient. They do so by edging out players who have arguably the highest earning potential and smallest risk in the game.

Why take away one of the different ways to play Eve you ask? Because high frequency market trading is about as fun as stabbing your own genitals with a rusty spork and people are only in it for the ISK.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#34 - 2013-06-23 11:29:17 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
I've often suspected I'm up against a bot, but in reality it's simply the fact that I'm trading a position on an item where the competition is strong. That's on sell orders. When it comes to region-wide buy orders, particularly for Meta 4, I have my suspicions, but even there you never know if there's a Moss from IT crowd bidding up every few minutes between counting the staples in his staple gun.


Weren't you accidentally trading against yourself the last time you complained about suspicious market increments? Straight
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#35 - 2013-06-23 11:40:30 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
OR we let the bots run wild; evening out buy/sell differentials and better converging on prices that reflect demand.

Only ones who lose are the manual .01'ers, and not a single tear was shed.


Given that you are openly supporting a method of play banned by the EULA, it would be most excellent if CCP came down on the account that contains your char with the same vengeance they come down on other botters.


I'm merely pointing out that unlike botting in other activities (which harms the economy and player base as a whole), trade bots tend to provide a useful service by making the market more convenient. They do so by edging out players who have arguably the highest earning potential and smallest risk in the game.

Why take away one of the different ways to play Eve you ask? Because high frequency market trading is about as fun as stabbing your own genitals with a rusty spork and people are only in it for the ISK.


I actually flinched from this. Ouch.

As an addition to the discussion, there hasn't been evidence of very many market bots operating. I see this complaint come up every month or so.

Also, captcha is crap. It was crap when they put it on the Eve-O forums. It is still crap.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-06-23 11:40:58 UTC
Perma ban OP for suggesting to use that horrible thing...

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#37 - 2013-06-23 12:04:18 UTC
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#38 - 2013-06-23 12:05:42 UTC
If CCP introduced captcha for anything in game, I would quit without hesitation.

Oh god.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#39 - 2013-06-23 12:09:03 UTC
Mc Scam wrote:
I'm not convinced that there is a significant amount of trading bots, if I remember correctly they are easy to spot for CCP and they get rid of them rather quickly. Are you exclusively trading during primetime? Because there's tons of people in- and outside of Jita updating orders.

EDIT: Here's the sec vid from the fanfest explaining bots and bans etc. , the link starts where the number, type and % of bots is shown, but the whole vid is interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vd-CpnjvAM&t=16m15s . So either there are almost no market bots or they are superstealthy and escape CCP's algorithms.


I remember reading a post by Kontaala on the German Eve forum. He's a very knowledgeable guy in both trading and the coding and math behind bots, has written several trading tools for Eve. He said ten market bots are enough to dominate Jita (with maxed out skill they cover 3050 orders for the most traded items) and that everytime after a bigger patch he notices 2-3 days of normal trading before the bots have catched on again.

Quote:
I'm merely pointing out that unlike botting in other activities (which harms the economy and player base as a whole), trade bots tend to provide a useful service by making the market more convenient. They do so by edging out players who have arguably the highest earning potential and smallest risk in the game.


Sorry but this is bull x2. Bots work with tiny 0.01 price increments. Deeply undercut/overcut prices, which other players actualy benefit from are always the doing of real player traders.
And to say trading has the smallest risk is a joke. Sure you're not getting violated by other players when you always stay in station but ther's always risk of a typo which is bound to happen occasionaly with eve's big numbers and the input lag in Jita. Trust me losing a couple billion because of a missing 0 or one too much doesn't feel less awful then getting freighter ganked. Same can happen thanks to bad investments, CCP deciding on some surprise changes etc.

That said i'm not sure i like the idea of captchas. I hate captchas
Noriko Mai
#40 - 2013-06-23 12:30:45 UTC
7of Six wrote:
hi

get rid of all trandig bots very easily

if you wanna make or change an order - a CAPTCHA of 2-3 letters appears and you can make/change orders for a period of time (maybe 30min). After that a new captcha appears. One second more work in 30min and ccp can save a lot of money pay people to hunting bots und all traders are free of bots...

I can't read 3 of 4 captchas as a human...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein