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Skill-Time for Plex

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2013-06-23 03:45:22 UTC
Im against all forms of pay to win but since you can buy 10 years of skill training legally by buying a character, isk by buying plex, the game is already pay to win so I couldnt really care. At least the method you propose would be more expensive than character sales.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#42 - 2013-06-23 04:02:28 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I like it, but with the following restrictions.

Only one plex per 30 days.

You can only buy the lowest attribute skilled SP amount that would occur over 30 days.

Say for example primary att, 17, secondary att, 21. Sp per hour 1650. Meaning you get 1,188,000 sp per plex.
When you apply the SP, it takes the full 30 days to integrate with your character sheet. You must pause any current training, in order for the integration to take place.
Once started, no other changes to the character sheet are allowed until complete.


But you can restart normal training after the 'integration' has started?

Have to admit that I don't understand the problem with plex for SP as lo as there are sensible restrictions like quoted above. You can already buy a character so what's the problem?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#43 - 2013-06-23 05:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Great idea. Call it SPEX. :D

The people objecting are the ones concerned that they won't be able to continue to gouge people the equivalent of $200+ worth of PLEX for the characters they want to sell.

And what if I don't want to shell out $5-billion ISK for a new character? What if I like mine fine the way it is and just want to level it up faster? I can buy anything else with PLEX, why not skill points?

Besides, no one's really looking at the upside here. Players progress much quicker, have the potential to earn more ISK, get into more expensive ships, venture out from high-sec...

Seems like win-win-win to me (players win, players looking for more interaction win and CCP wins).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#44 - 2013-06-23 05:24:40 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
just open a new account you hardcore pro player, go to null and try do kill a ship, now what? looking forward to see your killmails...

don't forget to use your "experience" when you start crying

if you did not understand until now that skill-time has a huge impact on everything in this game, then you might just be better off with your newb account anyway


I have corp members with pretty low SP and they're having a blast in the war zone.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-06-23 05:35:21 UTC
1 SP per PLEX.

GO!!!!
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#46 - 2013-06-23 06:02:28 UTC
This thread moved to Features and Ideas section of the forums.

ISD Gallifreyan

Lt. Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCL)

Interstellar Services Department
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#47 - 2013-06-23 06:32:04 UTC
At the very least, the suggestion of allowing dual-skill training on a single character for an additional PLEX each month has a lot of merit. You can't go insane with SP, but you can accelerate your training. There are a lot situations where you may want to train a long-term skill in the background while not sacrificing training for shorter duration skills.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-06-23 07:10:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?
Because it's a horrible idea that fundamentally breaks the game. Also, because the entire premise is incorrect — the problem you're trying to solve doesn't exist, so all you're doing is create new problems for no good reason.

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2013-06-23 08:21:35 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
is this pay to win? ask yourself, did long time players not also pay to win with their years of subscription?


No, we pay our sub in order to play. Winning is something we work at, some of us over many years.

Harry Forever wrote:
at the end, it would be the same, either you stay long time subscribed and train up, or you pay down early


Wrong, SP and trained skills help but even if you got what you wanted you can't buy the experience, contacts and knowledge that comes with time.

Living with the consequences of your in game choices be they from what you train to who you trust are a large part of what makes this game worth playing. You want to demolish an important part of that and replace it with instant gratification, if I wanted that I'd find a nice FPS.


yea i know maybe its a bit drastic, but it needs to be said this way, there could be an option to be able to buy skill-time only 3 month per year or something like that... for an new player the training time just seems to be too much, there must be a way at least to spezialize a character in one area faster

the older the game gets the more it will be needed as many high trained characters make your life as a newb not easy, I was able to trade up enough money so i could fly bigger ships fast, but do not have the skill to do it, I feel that restriction needs some adjustment

it was implemented to keep early players longer in the game, but it seems to be a big burden for new players now

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#50 - 2013-06-23 08:35:39 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Besides, no one's really looking at the upside here. Players progress much quicker, have the potential to earn more ISK, get into more expensive ships, venture out from high-sec...


T1 frigates are the right ship to start lowsec PvP with. More expensive ships will just make the learning process more painful.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#51 - 2013-06-23 08:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Zappity wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I like it, but with the following restrictions.

Only one plex per 30 days.

You can only buy the lowest attribute skilled SP amount that would occur over 30 days.

Say for example primary att, 17, secondary att, 21. Sp per hour 1650. Meaning you get 1,188,000 sp per plex.
When you apply the SP, it takes the full 30 days to integrate with your character sheet. You must pause any current training, in order for the integration to take place.
Once started, no other changes to the character sheet are allowed until complete.


But you can restart normal training after the 'integration' has started?

Have to admit that I don't understand the problem with plex for SP as lo as there are sensible restrictions like quoted above. You can already buy a character so what's the problem?
No, you cannot restart normal training. For the intergration to work, normal training needs to be paused throughout the process. Hence why I said no other changes to the character sheet were allowed, until complete.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2013-06-23 08:49:03 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?
Because it's a horrible idea that fundamentally breaks the game. Also, because the entire premise is incorrect — the problem you're trying to solve doesn't exist, so all you're doing is create new problems for no good reason.

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#53 - 2013-06-23 10:18:02 UTC
How come no one said "Go biomass yourself" yet? :D

The time to train skills is among the central balance factors in the game. Make it so someone can instantly get so much SP... keeps reminding me of a kill mail once saw - a navy omen on a month old character, fitted with an assortment of small and medium Blood and Sansha lasers - he probably agressed someone outside Jita 4-4 and got blown up. He probably spent a ton of PLEXes for that ship. Do you want to see the same person in a Machariel or Vindi? I, personally shed a tear every time i see something like this.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-06-23 10:26:33 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?
Because it's a horrible idea that fundamentally breaks the game. Also, because the entire premise is incorrect — the problem you're trying to solve doesn't exist, so all you're doing is create new problems for no good reason.

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#55 - 2013-06-23 10:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

With character market skill training is not circumvented - someone else spent a lot of time and real money training that character. Bad name, even worse looks and shady history are drawbacks.

Soccer example is bad: you can buy players from other soccer clubs into your team if you have money. Poker example is even worse as it doesnt make any sense.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-06-23 10:37:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?
Because it's a horrible idea that fundamentally breaks the game. Also, because the entire premise is incorrect — the problem you're trying to solve doesn't exist, so all you're doing is create new problems for no good reason.

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

Does buying a winning soccer team mean you will still win? You have to buy in to play poker so yes you have to pay for your cards.
Buying a character is much different from buying SP. With SP it becomes PLEX for the FOTM, and that is bad it creates dissatisfaction as instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-06-23 10:55:24 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Does buying a winning soccer team mean you will still win? You have to buy in to play poker so yes you have to pay for your cards.
Buying a character is much different from buying SP. With SP it becomes PLEX for the FOTM, and that is bad it creates dissatisfaction as instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

Buying your soccer team is akin to subscribing. You still have to have ongoing training and so on. An analogy to buying characters and isk is buying off the refs so you an an advantage above and beyond the prescribed limitations.

The set limitations in EvE is skill training and isk. Buying that defeats any purposeful play.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2013-06-23 10:59:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Does buying a winning soccer team mean you will still win? You have to buy in to play poker so yes you have to pay for your cards.
Buying a character is much different from buying SP. With SP it becomes PLEX for the FOTM, and that is bad it creates dissatisfaction as instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

Buying your soccer team is akin to subscribing. You still have to have ongoing training and so on. An analogy to buying characters and isk is buying off the refs so you an an advantage above and beyond the prescribed limitations.

The set limitations in EvE is skill training and isk. Buying that defeats any purposeful play.



No, the set limitation in EVE is Time. Buying a character means someone else did it, but time was still spent.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#59 - 2013-06-23 11:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.
How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.
You don't circumvent training, you trade ISK for someone else's time in doing the training and spending their time and money.

Also you didn't answer the question, how so? How has this been breaking the game since 2004?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2013-06-23 11:16:19 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

With character market skill training is not circumvented - someone else spent a lot of time and real money training that character. Bad name, even worse looks and shady history are drawbacks.

Soccer example is bad: you can buy players from other soccer clubs into your team if you have money. Poker example is even worse as it doesnt make any sense.

You do realise there are people selling characters trained specifically and perfectly for a role. They have never undocked. Its just an obfuscated way of CCP offering fully trained chars through 3rd parties.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)