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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Free To Play Idea

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Author
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#1 - 2013-06-22 23:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnord
[REVISED FROM ORIGINAL POST DUE TO FEEDBACK]
My original post was an attempt at simplicity and that clearly wasn't sufficient. So, I've thought up a few additions. I'm still trying to keep it simple, but it tries to address the issues from feedback.

The core of the idea:
Focus on the "cannot be trained on trial accounts" skills. These skills (for ships and modules) will be re-labeled as "restricted".
Additionally, focus on the meta-level of modules. Specifically, any module with Meta-5 or higher will also be considered "restricted".


While your account is marked as unpaid:

You cannot undock with any ship requiring any restricted skill. (Docking is allowed)
While in space, you cannot board an empty ship that uses restricted skills.
While in space, you cannot activate a ship that uses restricted skills from a POS/Capital ship maintenance bay.

While logging-in or undocking, any restricted modules are put offline (Including passive ones).
While in space, you cannot online or activate any restricted module.

(I'm very likely missing some/multiple key workaround(s) here which SHOULD be prevented as well, but the gist is that you're restricted to Tech 1 modules, Tech 1 ships, and nothing larger than cruisers, no workarounds.)

The venture, mostly as it exists now, will become a Tech-2 Mining Frigate, requiring Mining Frigate 4-5, and a "restricted" Tech 2 skill (Perhaps the T2 skill adds resistances, or drone mining yield). A Tech 1 mining frigate will be introduced, which has bonuses for mining, but appropriately balanced for F2P players.

You cannot train skills.
You cannot engage in PI.
You cannot engage in any Manufacturing, Science & Industry, Research, etc.
You cannot connect with an unpaid account on this machine if another paid account is active on your machine (Verified under current methods).
You can connect with a maximum of 3 unpaid accounts from your location (verified by connection details, such as IP and routing information).
You cannot give, or benefit from Mining Foreman bonuses in your fleet (All other bonuses ok).

Pirate bounties are capped at 1 million isk every 15 minute cycle. The rest is "taxed".
You cannot receive insurance payouts for destroyed ships.


Activities not restricted by unpaid accounts:
Piloting unrestricted ships/modules.
All market activities.
All contract activities.
Injecting skill-books (if prerequisites are met).
Docking your advanced ship after your paid-time expires. (This is contrary to my original proposal)


Goals:
1. Address the concerns and rag-*cough*-feedback from the first several pages of this thread.
2. Lure back lapsed players. Any existing player of unlimited age or skill points can return, and play for free.
3. Encourage casual play. If you play for 1 hour a month, you can likely play for free.
4. Provide a marketable Free-2-Play method that is not restricted by time or character age.

Possible Revisions:
I'd like to provide incentive for free players to leave Hisec. My earlier proposal encouraged this, but the current version lacks in this category. Perhaps specific modules/restrictions can be released if you leave protected space? Ideas?

The new idea is a lot more complex as well, but... this is Eve, so it probably can't be helped. Ugh




Discuss!
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#2 - 2013-06-22 23:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnord
Left blank for more minor revisions.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3 - 2013-06-22 23:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
You seem to have forgotten about the army of marketeers and scammers who never undock.

Other than that... no. Just... no. No no no no no no no. I can't even begin to explain - I don't think anyone can begin to explain how terribly and horribly ill-conceived any sort of "Free-to-Play" idea is. Also, expect someone to say "You can play for free with PLEX" before this thread is done. Someone other than myself, I mean.

Encouraging and allowing exploits? Are you insane?
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#4 - 2013-06-22 23:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnord
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
You seem to have forgotten about the army of marketeers and scammers who never undock.

Other than that... no. Just... no. No no no no no no no. I can't even begin to explain - I don't think anyone can begin to explain how terribly and horribly ill-conceived any sort of "Free-to-Play" idea is. Also, expect someone to say "You can play for free with PLEX" before this thread is done. Someone other than myself, I mean.


Marketeers and scammers:
Ok. So what? If they never undock, they don't use much by way of server/computer resources. And, they still consume money/wealth/etc out of the system. If it analyzed, and actually turns out to be bad, this addendum could be made: You can't post buy/sell orders while not paying. They can still buy/sell, but they can't post orders.

Really? You think "ANY" free to play idea is bad? Obviously, it has to be a well-thought and well-executed idea. But saying "ALL" free to play ideas are bad is just not true.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions
Admittedly this video trashes CCP a bit, but it also explains all the reasons why free-players is a good thing.

PLEX, sure. You have to work pretty hard to maintain that level of income though. I feel my idea is a bit better for the casual player, and tempting back lapsed players. Also, maintaining that income requires activity that takes away from what we WANT free players to be doing: Playing with other people. Giving a free player a way to play that doesn't require constant isk-gridning: better for the economy. Making them more likely to interact with other players: Best possible outcome.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#5 - 2013-06-23 00:07:06 UTC
God no, ccp needs money, otherwise we can't enjoy eve. Freeplay mmos are rarely the quality of eve and have never lasted as long. Some things are worth paying for.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#6 - 2013-06-23 00:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnord
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
God no, ccp needs money, otherwise we can't enjoy eve. Freeplay mmos are rarely the quality of eve and have never lasted as long. Some things are worth paying for.


It is quite possible to earn MORE money under a good microtransaction/free-to-play model. Granted, it must be done correctly.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/07/lord-of-the-rings-online-doubles-revenue-since-going-free-to-pla/
Since the game is already made, and is already gorgeous and high-quality, the real goal now is simply: More players.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7 - 2013-06-23 00:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
"Maintaining that income keeps people from interacting"

You make the assumption that the only way to make ISK is via solo activity.

As much as I hate them, I present to you ... the Highsec Incursion Community.

This is a group of drama quee- I mean.. people who have banded together into various different cliques- err, fleets that go around highsec getting into pointless fights over nothi- ...that is, they go around highsec as a group, earning hundreds of millions of ISK per hour in ships worth multiple billions of ISK. They each easily earn enough to PLEX their accounts, their alt accounts, their friends' accounts, their little sister's accounts and their dog's accounts while still being able to buy even more shinies for their shiny ships to earn even more ISK even faster.

And.. microtransactions.. no. The only way a free-to-play can get people to buy microtransactions is by pay-to-win. Do you know what will happen if CCP even thinks about touching pay-to-win with a ten-foot pole held by someone else? I do.

You're comparing EVE with games that are in no way similar to EVE and saying that EVE should do what they're doing. How exactly does that make sense?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#8 - 2013-06-23 00:17:21 UTC
Mt are a no go area in eve, we're not a pay to win game, do a search for 'jita riots' and find out for yourself why this will never be accepted by the majority of eve players.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#9 - 2013-06-23 00:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnord
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
"
As much as I hate them, I present to you ... the Highsec Incursion Community.

...that is, they go around highsec as a group, earning hundreds of millions of ISK per hour in ships worth multiple billions of ISK.


How often does that group have to dock/undock? Will they be anywhere NEAR as effective if they have to operate without that ability? As you said yourself, those are not ships that they could conveniently use under the restrictions I propose.

Would YOU trust your multi-billion isk ship to your "friend" for him to undock and give back to you, in-space, where anybody could scan you, slip in, and push the button to board it a half second before you?

So, they'll continue exactly as they do now. Playing for free by buying PLEX, and playing as a group. AWESOME! Maybe they grow in numbers by helping free players undock. Eventually, those free players are swimming in isk, and decide they will buy a plex for the convenience of being able to undock without help.
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#10 - 2013-06-23 00:25:35 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
"
And.. microtransactions.. no. The only way a free-to-play can get people to buy microtransactions is by pay-to-win. Do you know what will happen if CCP even thinks about touching pay-to-win with a ten-foot pole held by someone else? I do.


I'm not actually proposing microtransactions. My proposal is stated above. There's no microtransactions in it. BUT, the arguments for microtransactions are the same arguments for free-to-play. If you watch that video, or read the article, the key improvement that microtransactions give you is a Free-to-play option.

Free-to-play is the key. You can do anything a normal player can, it's just less convenient to do so.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#11 - 2013-06-23 00:31:26 UTC
"Free-to-play is the key. You can do anything a normal player can, it's just less convenient to do so."

No. Absolutely not. In the strongest possible terms, no. No, no, a thousand times no. Hell hath no fury like what will be witnessed if CCP even thinks of something like this. The massive rate of unsubs will be stuff of legend. The protests, the anger, the frothy-mouthed rage will make Incarna fade from memory by comparison.

You play with fire, my friend, and you know not what you do.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2013-06-23 00:33:13 UTC
Gnord wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
"
And.. microtransactions.. no. The only way a free-to-play can get people to buy microtransactions is by pay-to-win. Do you know what will happen if CCP even thinks about touching pay-to-win with a ten-foot pole held by someone else? I do.


I'm not actually proposing microtransactions. My proposal is stated above. There's no microtransactions in it. BUT, the arguments for microtransactions are the same arguments for free-to-play. If you watch that video, or read the article, the key improvement that microtransactions give you is a Free-to-play option.

Free-to-play is the key. You can do anything a normal player can, it's just less convenient to do so.



Infinite PI alts.

Infinite cyno alts.

Infinite mining alts.

Infinite falcon alts.

Why are any of those good?
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#13 - 2013-06-23 00:42:58 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:

Infinite PI alts.

Infinite cyno alts.

Infinite mining alts.

Infinite falcon alts.

Why are any of those good?


ALL planetary Interaction skills are restricted skills, already. Admittedly, that would require an additional rule. This is an oversight on my part, but an easily fixable one. The Rule: You can't interact with planets without paying.

Cyno's are modules, and cyno's are a restricted skill. You have to actually get those alts undocked with those modules, which I feel is mostly, if not completely, addressed by my idea.

Mining alt restrictions are already tested as being sufficient, since Mining Barge and other high end mining skills are restricted skills, and we don't see fleets of a million mining frigates running around right now.

Falcon: Tech 2 ship. Restricted skill. Already covered.
Mr Doctor
Star Nation
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-06-23 00:44:45 UTC
F2P is a poison making games that have promise into jokes. I hope it's a fad that dies soon.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#15 - 2013-06-23 00:45:00 UTC
Logging off in space while in a restricted ship bypasses your checking for restrictions. This whole idea is so cumbersome and full of restrictions that I just don't know why you bothered.


What is your ulterior motive for posting this? Drop the pretense, drop the attempt at defending it and just tell us straight-up the exact and true reason why you're suggesting EVE should have a free-to-play option.
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#16 - 2013-06-23 00:48:27 UTC
Mr Doctor wrote:
F2P is a poison making games that have promise into jokes. I hope it's a fad that dies soon.


Examples? Research? Random angry internet news-post?

Even if you don't agree that it improves the game (Read my earlier links), the other argument is that, if done correctly, it earns MORE money for the makers of the game. As long as that's true, it's not a fad. Game development is expensive, and people like money.

The only reason it will go away is if another, better money-making strategy is devised.
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#17 - 2013-06-23 00:55:54 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Logging off in space while in a restricted ship bypasses your checking for restrictions. This whole idea is so cumbersome and full of restrictions that I just don't know why you bothered.


What is your ulterior motive for posting this? Drop the pretense, drop the attempt at defending it and just tell us straight-up the exact and true reason why you're suggesting EVE should have a free-to-play option.


Not really. You will eventually need to dock. Or get blown up. If you can stay out in space, without any of these things, good on you. Grats, you are awesome.

Ok, The things I PERSONALLY want:
1. Improve one of my favorite games?
2. Bring more friends to play that game with me?
3. I have multiple accounts. I could probably reduce that to 2 paying accounts under this scheme.

The last one I think is trivial compared to the potential to bring in lots of players.

Let me ask you this:
Would you give up the convenience of undocking in your favorite ship, just to save a few bucks each month?
I imagine your answer is no.

Some players with many accounts will pay for fewer of them (in my estimate, probably half) . But many players who previously wouldn't play, will be drawn in, and even some of those will start paying or buying plex. I think that more than makes up for it.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#18 - 2013-06-23 00:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Gnord wrote:
The core of the idea is this: Focus on the "cannot be trained on trial accounts" skills.


masses of free scouts \o/
dont need any skill


I guess you would need a "allowed for trial" flag on skills because the set of skills which arent abusable for something with free unlimited trial will be very low.
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#19 - 2013-06-23 00:57:55 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Gnord wrote:
The core of the idea is this: Focus on the "cannot be trained on trial accounts" skills.


masses of free scouts \o/
dont need any skill


Uhm... how is that any different than trial accounts now?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#20 - 2013-06-23 00:59:36 UTC
Gnord wrote:

Uhm... how is that any different than trial accounts now?


you cant run a trial client together with non-trials in the same time logged in.
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