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Naga design question - why not cruise missiles??

Author
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#1 - 2011-11-07 16:51:05 UTC
I was curious about the Naga’s design choice of being a torpedo boat. I envisioned it much more as a cruise missile platform. Torpedos are already seen fitted to Ravens, Typhoons, and of course Stealth Bombers, whereas cruise missiles are really one viable on Ravens, and rarely seen in PvP.

If the Tier 3 BC’s are designed for assaults on very large targets, this would negate some of the very weaknesses of cruise missiles- the large explosion radius, and the delay between launch and impact during large bombardments. Cruises would hit for maximum damage against capital ships due to their massive size, and could truly make the most of a damage bonus or rate of fire bonus. This would give Caldari an opportunity to use this weapon outside of PvE. And, of course, you’d still be quite vulnerable to smaller ships getting a tackle on you.

Lets say your gang had a capital ship scrambled – the takedown would take long enough that a squad of Nagas beginning a bombardment with cruise missiles would still make a big impact on the DPS, and be able to do while keeping range and avoiding defenses like heavy neuts. They wouldn’t be fat sitting ducks like a cruise raven either, and can take advantage of the fact that the speed of your ship and transversal won’t affect your DPS while orbiting and bombing your target.

If the goal is to make the Naga flexible at range and up close, than you could still use the optimal range bonus to enhance 8 large blasters, though obviously not living up to the Talos in terms of DPS. I think at very minimum the bonus should be changed to allow for cruise missile setups, if not getting a specialized bonus to cruise missiles.

Any thoughts from the developers or players on cruisey Nagas?

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2011-11-07 17:02:28 UTC
Probably because you could just kite rats with it and the tier 3s aren't made with PvE in mind.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2011-11-07 17:07:21 UTC
I suppose it may be an anti-ratting measure, but how hard would cruise missiles really hit against NPC frigs? My guess is that without drones to compliment them, cruises only become useful in SOME pve situations, but not all. And couldn't you just kite with rails too?

Naga was definitely designed with some ranged warfare in mind, i'm just surprised that cruises weren't given a little love.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#4 - 2011-11-07 17:22:44 UTC
I thought torps were an obvious choice myself. WHY? The boat is meant to carry oversized weapons for large targets, between cruise and torps, that's an easy choice. I haven't seen the latest sisi build, but I understand it can use hybrids, so perhaps they'll disallow railguns for consistency.

Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2011-11-07 17:30:25 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
I thought torps were an obvious choice myself. WHY? The boat is meant to carry oversized weapons for large targets, between cruise and torps, that's an easy choice. I haven't seen the latest sisi build, but I understand it can use hybrids, so perhaps they'll disallow railguns for consistency.


All hail the Blaga!!!

Because Toga is just silly.
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-07 17:54:47 UTC
all the reasons you gave for your cruise missile argument are perfectly viable reasons to use torpedoes.

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#7 - 2011-11-08 00:02:33 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Probably because you could just kite rats with it and the tier 3s aren't made with PvE in mind.



If that was what CCP had in mind, only short range turrets would receive a bonus (although I don't know if bonusing short range turrets only would be possible without some recoding).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Enik3
Pyke Syndicate
Solyaris Chtonium
#8 - 2011-11-08 00:39:07 UTC
Because it's a PVP ship whose major purpose is being part of an evolving strategy against super cap dominance. And because I've seen very, very, very few PVP fleet fits that involved cruise missiles, maybe CCP wanted to go with what more PVPers are likely to have trained to T2?
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#9 - 2011-11-08 00:53:29 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Probably because you could just kite rats with it and the tier 3s aren't made with PvE in mind.



Whats wrong with kiting rats? Is ratting now an exploit? Is CCP now planning to remove PVE from the game? Are we going to have to buy all our ISK from the Eve store? Or maybe we'll buy GTC from the Eve store than convert it to ISK in the NEX store. No more concord bounties!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.

Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-11-08 01:14:59 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I was curious about the Naga’s design choice of being a torpedo boat. I envisioned it much more as a cruise missile platform. Torpedos are already seen fitted to Ravens, Typhoons, and of course Stealth Bombers, whereas cruise missiles are really one viable on Ravens, and rarely seen in PvP.

If the Tier 3 BC’s are designed for assaults on very large targets, this would negate some of the very weaknesses of cruise missiles- the large explosion radius, and the delay between launch and impact during large bombardments. Cruises would hit for maximum damage against capital ships due to their massive size, and could truly make the most of a damage bonus or rate of fire bonus. This would give Caldari an opportunity to use this weapon outside of PvE. And, of course, you’d still be quite vulnerable to smaller ships getting a tackle on you.

Lets say your gang had a capital ship scrambled – the takedown would take long enough that a squad of Nagas beginning a bombardment with cruise missiles would still make a big impact on the DPS, and be able to do while keeping range and avoiding defenses like heavy neuts. They wouldn’t be fat sitting ducks like a cruise raven either, and can take advantage of the fact that the speed of your ship and transversal won’t affect your DPS while orbiting and bombing your target.

If the goal is to make the Naga flexible at range and up close, than you could still use the optimal range bonus to enhance 8 large blasters, though obviously not living up to the Talos in terms of DPS. I think at very minimum the bonus should be changed to allow for cruise missile setups, if not getting a specialized bonus to cruise missiles.

Any thoughts from the developers or players on cruisey Nagas?



Jesus christ kid. you need to get out more
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#11 - 2011-11-08 01:38:15 UTC
...uh. Hrmm.. I'm not seeing anything about the naga that disallows Cruise missiles. It's just a large launcher. Type=3 or whatever... if you want to fit cruise missiles I don't see anything that would prevent that... at least on the test server.

...I mean... I'm pretty sure these numbers for bonuses and power grid capacity aren't set in stone. yet.... The Naga shows a base power grid of 855

A seige launcher II uses something like 1800... so even with the power grid bonus its tough...

I'm just saying don't count on the #s where they stand now.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
#12 - 2011-11-08 02:03:46 UTC
Torps because its caldari... hybrids because missiles suck.... not cruise because Rails will apply more dps with no sig radius factor from extreme range.

Cruise missiles are regularly fitted on ravens, scorpions, widows, rattlesnakes, Navy Issues Scorp/Raven, and occasionally on Golems by missioners that are lazy and dont want to have to deal with range issues.

Torps are fitted on bombers, golems, and occasionally in pvp when the pilot failed to realize that missiles (especially large ones) suck. Sorry... but if the Naga was to be a pure missile boat... it would have just been laughed out of existence... like the drake
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-11-08 03:07:31 UTC
Gogela wrote:
...uh. Hrmm.. I'm not seeing anything about the naga that disallows Cruise missiles. It's just a large launcher. Type=3 or whatever... if you want to fit cruise missiles I don't see anything that would prevent that... at least on the test server.

...I mean... I'm pretty sure these numbers for bonuses and power grid capacity aren't set in stone. yet.... The Naga shows a base power grid of 855

A seige launcher II uses something like 1800... so even with the power grid bonus its tough...

I'm just saying don't count on the #s where they stand now.


The Naga only has powergrid/CPU reduction for sieges, so can't fit cruises.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-11-08 18:45:31 UTC
Rocky Deadshot wrote:
Torps because its caldari... hybrids because missiles suck.... not cruise because Rails will apply more dps with no sig radius factor from extreme range.

Cruise missiles are regularly fitted on ravens, scorpions, widows, rattlesnakes, Navy Issues Scorp/Raven, and occasionally on Golems by missioners that are lazy and dont want to have to deal with range issues.

Torps are fitted on bombers, golems, and occasionally in pvp when the pilot failed to realize that missiles (especially large ones) suck. Sorry... but if the Naga was to be a pure missile boat... it would have just been laughed out of existence... like the drake


Right because you never see 10-20 pilot drake fleets flying around 0.0 Roll

Personally Im happy it can fit both, though it would make some good adventures if it could use missiles and torpedoes!

Ferox #1

David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-11-08 19:08:23 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Probably because you could just kite rats with it and the tier 3s aren't made with PvE in mind.


are you kidding? torp naga is perfect for 0.0 belt ratting... try it out on sisi.... it melts rats

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-11-08 19:15:39 UTC
Rocky Deadshot wrote:
Torps because its caldari... hybrids because missiles suck.... not cruise because Rails will apply more dps with no sig radius factor from extreme range.

Cruise missiles are regularly fitted on ravens, scorpions, widows, rattlesnakes, Navy Issues Scorp/Raven, and occasionally on Golems by missioners that are lazy and dont want to have to deal with range issues.

Torps are fitted on bombers, golems, and occasionally in pvp when the pilot failed to realize that missiles (especially large ones) suck. Sorry... but if the Naga was to be a pure missile boat... it would have just been laughed out of existence... like the drake


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
#17 - 2011-11-08 21:20:50 UTC
Andski wrote:
Rocky Deadshot wrote:
Torps because its caldari... hybrids because missiles suck.... not cruise because Rails will apply more dps with no sig radius factor from extreme range.

Cruise missiles are regularly fitted on ravens, scorpions, widows, rattlesnakes, Navy Issues Scorp/Raven, and occasionally on Golems by missioners that are lazy and dont want to have to deal with range issues.

Torps are fitted on bombers, golems, and occasionally in pvp when the pilot failed to realize that missiles (especially large ones) suck. Sorry... but if the Naga was to be a pure missile boat... it would have just been laughed out of existence... like the drake


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis


I was actually using the Ellipsis correctly. I edited out the more boring parts of my monologue as I spoke this out.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#18 - 2011-11-08 21:23:03 UTC
Read the feedback thread in the test server forums CCP explained why they didnt do cruises.


No i will not link the posts, you are a big boy, now go put on your big boy pants and find the post yourself.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#19 - 2011-11-08 21:25:22 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Read the feedback thread in the test server forums CCP explained why they didnt do cruises.


No i will not link the posts, you are a big boy, now go put on your big boy pants and find the post yourself.


Thanks, I appreciate that, very helpful. And no, I don't need to be linked everything. I just don't have the time to keep up with every thread so I'm fine with just tossing my thoughts out there and if its already been said than great, someone like you is bound to point me in the right direction. No need to be condescending Roll

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-11-08 21:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
I thought torps were an obvious choice myself. WHY? The boat is meant to carry oversized weapons for large targets, between cruise and torps, that's an easy choice. I haven't seen the latest sisi build, but I understand it can use hybrids, so perhaps they'll disallow railguns for consistency.


The purpose of those is to hard hit BC's and above with weak tanks, so most prob there will be some changes about slots layout for each on test right now. The thing is that if torps are not concerned about rigors cruise are, so what's the point of giving cruise missiles ? -none
While at the current status I agree some speed bonus would be cool so those torps can hit further

If you want to hit smaller stuff you have to use a drake for that.
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