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L4 Battleships for Low-Med SP
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Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-06-20 09:56:14 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
tech 2 purgers on a drake, really.

T2 rigs. No eft warrior should leave home without it.


My rule of thumb is that I don't spend more on rigging a ship than I spent on the hull, and even at that, I only consider a T2 rig if it enables a capability in that ship that makes it much more worthwhile to fly. When you can buy two more Drakes for the ISK you'd pay for the three T2 purgers to brick-tank one Drake, it doesn't really make sense. Unless you want to use that Drake as a ludicrously tough bait ship, or a pseudo-command ship.

Granted, a full brick-tank Drake with the T2 purgers can shrug off a lot of raw damage, and rats aren't generally good at alpha-striking, but that's battleship money you're putting into a low-DPS battlecruiser - you can practically pick up a Raven for that kind of money.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#82 - 2013-06-20 13:21:45 UTC
T2 gun rigs tend to be very worth it though, they provide substantial gains over regular T1 rigs and are very cheap compared to Shield/Armor rigs.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#83 - 2013-06-21 04:41:49 UTC
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
[quote=Marc Callan]Unless you are gung-ho on the projectile route and aspire to be in a Machariel, I'd skip this path and go with a Domi like the one I suggested earlier.


It's not even necessarily being all that gung-ho about projectiles, though I love most things Minmatar (I went Gallente because the Megathron hull is my absolute favorite ship hull in the game). It's mostly that I'm looking to have a ship that'll be easy enough to convert over to Incursions once I feel comfortable enough with the ship. Which just generally means T2 guns.

From what I've seen, I haven't seen a whole lot of Dominix fits for use in incursions, but I've seen a lot of Maelstrom fits, a smattering of Hyperions, lots of Maelstroms under the "Sniper" category, and then the Vindi and Kronos. But not really a Dominix.

Am I just not looking in the right place?

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2013-06-21 15:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
I also don't get why everyone here is crapping on the Tengu, Tengu is by far the best PvE ship for anything but incursions, especially since the drone changes.

[New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Empty mid slot

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Kept the cost down as much as possible as even a C-type MSB is very pricey. CN BCS are there mainly for fitting, you can fit domi BCS if you want to save some money. Tech 2 rigor/flare catalysts are under 40m these days, but you can use T1 if you need to save some money there as well.

That's over 900 dps, with the explosion radius pushed down far enough to kill elite frigs in two volleys. Remember HAMLs have double the fire rate as HMLs do so that's like one-volleying them with HMLs. It's better DPS than sniper-fit BSes, and unlike close-range fitted BSes you don't have to deal with the rats shooting your drones. The low cycle time of HAMLs vs. HMLs saves you a lot of time and effort, you don't need to make multiple control groups to avoid massively overkilling things.

Cap stable with the afterburner off, lasts a long time with it on. The empty mid can be whatever. Against EM-shooting rats, put in an EM hardener. (A passive one if you want to stay cap stable) Against jamming rats, use an ECCM. Target painter is probably best against everything else. It's a >600 DPS tank against kin/therm rats which is way more than enough.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#85 - 2013-06-21 15:59:42 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
I also don't get why everyone here is crapping on the Tengu, Tengu is by far the best PvE ship for anything but incursions, especially since the drone changes.

[New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Empty mid slot

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Kept the cost down as much as possible as even a C-type MSB is very pricey. CN BCS are there mainly for fitting, you can fit domi BCS if you want to save some money. Tech 2 rigor/flare catalysts are under 40m these days, but you can use T1 if you need to save some money there as well.

That's over 900 dps, with the explosion radius pushed down far enough to kill elite frigs in two volleys. Remember HAMLs have double the fire rate as HMLs do so that's like one-volleying them with HMLs. It's better DPS than sniper-fit BSes, and unlike close-range fitted BSes you don't have to deal with the rats shooting your drones. The low cycle time of HAMLs vs. HMLs saves you a lot of time and effort, you don't need to make multiple control groups to avoid massively overkilling things.

Cap stable with the afterburner off, lasts a long time with it on. The empty mid can be whatever. Against EM-shooting rats, put in an EM hardener. (A passive one if you want to stay cap stable) Against jamming rats, use an ECCM. Target painter is probably best against everything else. It's a >600 DPS tank against kin/therm rats which is way more than enough.



Too bad all that deeps is wasted by flying into range or switching to Javelin.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2013-06-21 23:59:25 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
[quote=Marc Callan]Unless you are gung-ho on the projectile route and aspire to be in a Machariel, I'd skip this path and go with a Domi like the one I suggested earlier.


It's not even necessarily being all that gung-ho about projectiles, though I love most things Minmatar (I went Gallente because the Megathron hull is my absolute favorite ship hull in the game). It's mostly that I'm looking to have a ship that'll be easy enough to convert over to Incursions once I feel comfortable enough with the ship. Which just generally means T2 guns.

From what I've seen, I haven't seen a whole lot of Dominix fits for use in incursions, but I've seen a lot of Maelstrom fits, a smattering of Hyperions, lots of Maelstroms under the "Sniper" category, and then the Vindi and Kronos. But not really a Dominix.

Am I just not looking in the right place?


No you are certainly correct, Dominix has no current place in incursion fleets as while 750 dps from sentries is nice, it's not the 1k+ you can get from pirate battleships. If you are looking for top tier incursion ships that would be the Arty Machariel or the Tachyon Nightmare, these are both the go-to ship for ISN, the best incursion running group in EVE by a large margin. If you are actually serious about incursions you should aim to join their fleets and therefore use their doctrine. Otherwise, do what you want really.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2013-06-22 00:02:03 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Xequecal wrote:

*snip*



Too bad all that deeps is wasted by flying into range or switching to Javelin.


So much this. Projection is the name of the game in missions, taking time to fly to targets is doing it wrong, only the Machariel can legitimately pull that off tbh.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#88 - 2013-06-22 00:29:13 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
I also don't get why everyone here is crapping on the Tengu, Tengu is by far the best PvE ship for anything but incursions, especially since the drone changes.


A low-to-medium SP character likely doesn't have a billion or so ISK to drop on a fit Tengu for Level 4s, which is the biggest concern for me, at least.

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#89 - 2013-06-22 00:30:45 UTC
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
No you are certainly correct, Dominix has no current place in incursion fleets as while 750 dps from sentries is nice, it's not the 1k+ you can get from pirate battleships. If you are looking for top tier incursion ships that would be the Arty Machariel or the Tachyon Nightmare, these are both the go-to ship for ISN, the best incursion running group in EVE by a large margin. If you are actually serious about incursions you should aim to join their fleets and therefore use their doctrine. Otherwise, do what you want really.



Thanks for the info on this. It's only a short train to T2 Rails at this point, so I'll finish that up, then it sounds like its time to swap to a Maelstrom for real, to get into Incursions. I need to support an account for both I and my wife, so money flow is going to be important to me.

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.