These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Time dilation, seems very strange

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ariane VoxDei
#1 - 2011-11-07 11:03:30 UTC
Seems to effect the rate of things that noone wants it to:

Example, warping, stumbled on it while going around to look a different regional nebulas.
Felt very sluggish, so i got out a stopwatch.

Practical testing on sisi:

Using a gallente shuttle, all releveant navigational and agi skills maxed:

Warping in Amarr (@50% dilation according to UI), took 24-25s to reach max warp speed of 6.0AU/sec.
Warping in Bhizeba (on my way to kador) @no dilation: about 12s to reach max warp speed of 6.0AU/sec.
Similar slowdowns on the decelleraton from max warp.
Then same 50% dilation problems in Romi (kador).

might be generally effecting subwarp accelration as well, taking about 5-6s from pushing warp to getting into warp. Its a shuttle. On TQ that would be snappy, likely near or below 2s.
Undilated, back in Bhizheba, entering warp in about 2.5-3s

Another comparison. 33au warp, from standstill to being able to click jump:
amarr (@50%dilate): about 1m25s
bhizheba, no dilate: 38s

The dilation also seems to effect the "gateflash" animation, the gating animation (the one effecting your ship) and the rate of the warp tunnel animation.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-11-07 11:52:10 UTC
Time dialation is an on or off thing, it can't be made to affect some things, and not others.

If it's in amarr they might have the threshold set low for testing, certain systems set for certain dilation percentages for testing, or you were in a massive fleet engagement in amarr. I don't see any reason it should affect your average system since the problem only rears its head when you have hundreds on grid all trying to shoot at things.

I was warping all around on sisi yesterday and never noticed time dilation active.
gfldex
#3 - 2011-11-07 14:12:09 UTC
Time dilation is meant to effect anything beside reinforcement and production timers. It is actually a solution of the problem we have with lag on TQ right now. Movement is prioritised over hurting. As a result laggy system make it much harder to produce results and therefore hinder consumption. The behavior you observed is intentional and will change the game a hell of a lot.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Ariane VoxDei
#4 - 2011-11-07 15:24:42 UTC
I was just hoping it would be a thing for blob warfare only.

If it is like this all the time it is pretty horrible,but was interesting to see it in action.
Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-07 16:29:22 UTC
Remember that SiSi has much lower resources than TQ and so probably you got slowed down even though there was nothing big, for TQ, around.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-07 16:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Sinai
As far as I experienced time dilation I can already tell you its a very bad idea.

Honestly I didnt liked it from the start. Since i work in IT i know exactly why they decided to do it. Cost cutting. It have nothing to do with lag. It have everything to do with spending cash on hardware.

The way it is implemented on SiSi now if it goes like this to TQ I can promise you, it will be the end of EVE. The exodus like Summer one, it will be tiny wind comparing to the shitstorm CCP will receive.

Either get rid of that time dilation or make it optional for each player. Or limit it to combat only. Because the way it is now, EVE going to be deserted in a day. Just like SWG after NGO.

Don't let them fly safe!
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-07 18:31:54 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:


Honestly I didnt liked it from the start. Since i work in IT i know exactly why they decided to do it. Cost cutting. It have nothing to do with lag. It have everything to do with spending cash on hardware..


No, you don't . The architecture of the game simply doesn't scale well, because all the actions in one system must be handled in one node. No threading between nodes is possible. CCP already has state of the art hardware (read the devblogs), which is simply not enough with thousand of players and drones flying in a single solar system. You have to live with the boundaries which current hardware technology sets, and the solution CCP came up with is a pretty clever one (which will discourage blob warfare by the way)
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2011-11-07 18:56:18 UTC
Hey all!

Time dilation is manually set to 50% in several systems on Singularity for testing purposes. This is NOT caused by the server being overloaded and this is NOT how time dilation will happen on Tranquility.

On Tranquility time dilation will only kick in, when a server node is being overloaded and when you normally would experience lag. But: when a system is being dilated then nearly all parts of game-play in space will be dilated.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-11-07 21:45:18 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Hey all!

Time dilation is manually set to 50% in several systems on Singularity for testing purposes. This is NOT caused by the server being overloaded and this is NOT how time dilation will happen on Tranquility.

On Tranquility time dilation will only kick in, when a server node is being overloaded and when you normally would experience lag. But: when a system is being dilated then nearly all parts of game-play in space will be dilated.


Thank you for explaining how time dilation will work.
I already foresee the problem there. Players will be very annoyed by time dilation in systems. At first it will be "cool new feature" but after a few times they experience it they going to hate it deeply and it will cause unsubs much more then any Incarna experience ever did. It's gameplay interference that nobody will stand for long since in one system you fly normally and then you jump and appear in time dilation area which you never asked for and need to adjust your sense of gameplay and time. At least that's how it looks like.

In combat situations it could work fine and even add to fun and gameplay. Players certainly look forward for this kind of experience and probably will like it. But activating it in simple transit through systems time dilation will be the same as pulling a kill switch on the game.

May be you can come up with some other idea to get rid of lag. As one of examples certain gates can lead to other server. These gates can be marked and with enough resources and will its not that impossible to implement into the game. For example Imperial borders gates when you enter into another Empire space.

Don't let them fly safe!
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#10 - 2011-11-07 22:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
Alex Sinai wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Hey all!

Time dilation is manually set to 50% in several systems on Singularity for testing purposes. This is NOT caused by the server being overloaded and this is NOT how time dilation will happen on Tranquility.

On Tranquility time dilation will only kick in, when a server node is being overloaded and when you normally would experience lag. But: when a system is being dilated then nearly all parts of game-play in space will be dilated.


Thank you for explaining how time dilation will work.
I already foresee the problem there. Players will be very annoyed by time dilation in systems. At first it will be "cool new feature" but after a few times they experience it they going to hate it deeply and it will cause unsubs much more then any Incarna experience ever did. It's gameplay interference that nobody will stand for long since in one system you fly normally and then you jump and appear in time dilation area which you never asked for and need to adjust your sense of gameplay and time. At least that's how it looks like.

In combat situations it could work fine and even add to fun and gameplay. Players certainly look forward for this kind of experience and probably will like it. But activating it in simple transit through systems time dilation will be the same as pulling a kill switch on the game.

May be you can come up with some other idea to get rid of lag. As one of examples certain gates can lead to other server. These gates can be marked and with enough resources and will its not that impossible to implement into the game. For example Imperial borders gates when you enter into another Empire space.


What part of "time dilation will only kick in, when a server node is being overloaded and when you normally would experience lag" did you not understand? TiDi isn't going to just roll around EVE at random like some sort of inconvenience incursion. It will happen in systems where massive battles are taking place (700+ ships), where you'd currently jump in and encounter 'soul crushing lag'. I know which I'd prefer.
Banechild
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#11 - 2011-11-07 22:03:48 UTC
You do realise that you need several hundreds of people on node for it to become unresponsive ?

And that null sec is not shared with high sec and that your other option would staring at black screen while you wait for system to load for you while you're being shot to pieces by those who have already loaded the grid ?

But it's still hilarious to see you corpse appear next to your ship before it explodes on your end ... Roll
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-07 22:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivus Tao
Alex Sinai wrote:
As far as I experienced time dilation I can already tell you its a very bad idea.

Honestly I didnt liked it from the start. Since i work in IT i know exactly why they decided to do it. Cost cutting. It have nothing to do with lag. It have everything to do with spending cash on hardware.

The way it is implemented on SiSi now if it goes like this to TQ I can promise you, it will be the end of EVE. The exodus like Summer one, it will be tiny wind comparing to the shitstorm CCP will receive.

Either get rid of that time dilation or make it optional for each player. Or limit it to combat only. Because the way it is now, EVE going to be deserted in a day. Just like SWG after NGO.


You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Good to hear from ccp the reasoning for time dilation on sisi. I'll probably go looking for it now to see it in action.
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-07 22:32:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jiji Hamin
Alex Sinai wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Hey all!

Time dilation is manually set to 50% in several systems on Singularity for testing purposes. This is NOT caused by the server being overloaded and this is NOT how time dilation will happen on Tranquility.

On Tranquility time dilation will only kick in, when a server node is being overloaded and when you normally would experience lag. But: when a system is being dilated then nearly all parts of game-play in space will be dilated.


Thank you for explaining how time dilation will work.
I already foresee the problem there. Players will be very annoyed by time dilation in systems. At first it will be "cool new feature" but after a few times they experience it they going to hate it deeply and it will cause unsubs much more then any Incarna experience ever did. It's gameplay interference that nobody will stand for long since in one system you fly normally and then you jump and appear in time dilation area which you never asked for and need to adjust your sense of gameplay and time. At least that's how it looks like.

In combat situations it could work fine and even add to fun and gameplay. Players certainly look forward for this kind of experience and probably will like it. But activating it in simple transit through systems time dilation will be the same as pulling a kill switch on the game.

May be you can come up with some other idea to get rid of lag. As one of examples certain gates can lead to other server. These gates can be marked and with enough resources and will its not that impossible to implement into the game. For example Imperial borders gates when you enter into another Empire space.


you're pretty much hilarious. I don't think you're getting this, or maybe you are trolling.

Empire space will almost certainly be unaffected. Hisec has very stable, day-in and day-out flow of players along predictable patterns. They already break up eve into many different server "nodes" and as of right now their resource allocation for keeping empire space running healthily is the best it's ever been. Jita used to be unbearable, and in recent years the only time I've been locked out was during the hilarious protests this summer. The issue isn't high volumes of players, that they can manage. it's high volumes of players appearing and dissppearing rapidly in unpredictable places. AKA, 0.0 from the perpsective of sov warfare. when there are not active battles going on, players cluster in moderate but not particularly big numbers in station systems and diffuse with pretty low population density across the rest of the stars in more populous regions, while other regions stend to stay deserted all the time. and then suddenly BOOM 1000 players from across null all log on or drop what they are doing, form up in a few locations, and cut a bee-line for some system that from the perspective of the IT wizards over in iceland is arbitrarily chosen and largely unpredictable, and the worse part is it may be in some sleepy region that was wholly deserted, and so suddenly some sad little node sitting around being all sleepy keeping some systems in some godforsaken place working for that one macromining bot and that afk dude in station... suddenly it has 1000+ people on its hands, all on grid together in one system and then everything is terrible and on a good day we all just would experience soul-crushing lag and on a bad day... well... some of us remember what happened immediately after the launch of dominion...
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-11-07 22:42:29 UTC
We will all see who is right about time dilation. I already hear'd these "you have no idea" and "you so wrong". Took some months for CCP and all these "no idea/so wrong" to realize who was wrong and who was right. It was simple accounting calculations after unsubs. So don't be in a hurry to judge. What part of not received money from unsubscribed users you dont understand? Its simple economic calculations which make business succeed or die. And with time dilation in systems transit players will start to avoid overtly populated systems, which will lead to these systems population drop which in turn will lead to economy spread out and prices raise and goods spread out may be. A good theory. In practice it will lead to players being increasingly annoyed by time dilation each time they fly to Jita for example. It will be more then enough 5-10 times to do that for player to unsubscribe. Why? Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance. Try that a few times and it becomes a game breaker for players. Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that. But how many of these are in the game? A very low thousands. And even these numbers will fall due to same psychological discomfort feeling since some systems will stay overtly populated and other reasons which will kick in when population of server diminishes below certain levels. What of that you don't understand.

Don't let them fly safe!
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-11-07 22:54:35 UTC
Quote:
And with time dilation in systems transit players will start to avoid overtly populated systems, which will lead to these systems population drop which in turn will lead to economy spread out and prices raise and goods spread out may be


Try reading, it won't happen in hi-sec.... Its for null-sec blob vs blob battles only.
The only time Jita would have experienced it was during the protests, so once in it's existence.
Don't think that is going to case un-subs........

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-11-07 23:09:41 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
We will all see who is right about time dilation. I already hear'd these "you have no idea" and "you so wrong". Took some months for CCP and all these "no idea/so wrong" to realize who was wrong and who was right. It was simple accounting calculations after unsubs. So don't be in a hurry to judge. What part of not received money from unsubscribed users you dont understand? Its simple economic calculations which make business succeed or die. And with time dilation in systems transit players will start to avoid overtly populated systems, which will lead to these systems population drop which in turn will lead to economy spread out and prices raise and goods spread out may be. A good theory. In practice it will lead to players being increasingly annoyed by time dilation each time they fly to Jita for example. It will be more then enough 5-10 times to do that for player to unsubscribe. Why? Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance. Try that a few times and it becomes a game breaker for players. Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that. But how many of these are in the game? A very low thousands. And even these numbers will fall due to same psychological discomfort feeling since some systems will stay overtly populated and other reasons which will kick in when population of server diminishes below certain levels. What of that you don't understand.


I call troll. shenanigans bro.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#17 - 2011-11-07 23:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Two step
Alex Sinai wrote:
As far as I experienced time dilation I can already tell you its a very bad idea.

Honestly I didnt liked it from the start. Since i work in IT i know exactly why they decided to do it. Cost cutting. It have nothing to do with lag. It have everything to do with spending cash on hardware.

The way it is implemented on SiSi now if it goes like this to TQ I can promise you, it will be the end of EVE. The exodus like Summer one, it will be tiny wind comparing to the shitstorm CCP will receive.

Either get rid of that time dilation or make it optional for each player. Or limit it to combat only. Because the way it is now, EVE going to be deserted in a day. Just like SWG after NGO.


You are right. You better beat the crowds and unsub now! Since you work in IT you know that once someone says EVE will die, it has to happen.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Xynthiar
OnlyFleets.
#18 - 2011-11-07 23:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Xynthiar
Alex Sinai wrote:
We will all see who is right about time dilation. I already hear'd these "you have no idea" and "you so wrong". Took some months for CCP and all these "no idea/so wrong" to realize who was wrong and who was right. It was simple accounting calculations after unsubs. So don't be in a hurry to judge. What part of not received money from unsubscribed users you dont understand? Its simple economic calculations which make business succeed or die. And with time dilation in systems transit players will start to avoid overtly populated systems, which will lead to these systems population drop which in turn will lead to economy spread out and prices raise and goods spread out may be. A good theory. In practice it will lead to players being increasingly annoyed by time dilation each time they fly to Jita for example. It will be more then enough 5-10 times to do that for player to unsubscribe. Why? Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance. Try that a few times and it becomes a game breaker for players. Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that. But how many of these are in the game? A very low thousands. And even these numbers will fall due to same psychological discomfort feeling since some systems will stay overtly populated and other reasons which will kick in when population of server diminishes below certain levels. What of that you don't understand.


Since you're ignoring what everyone in this thread is saying, I'm going to guess you're trolling... but in the off chance you're not actually trolling, allow me to enlighten you:

The way Tidi works is that tidi will slow everything down to the rate things would happen anyway during lag, meaning you wouldn't warp quicker if you're just "passing through" a system where a thousand people are fighting without tidi.

What tidi does is make the lag "fair". During current lag, some things would execute faster than others, causing a whole fuckton of problems for obvious reasons. Tidi makes sure everything gets executed in the proper, intended order. (I'm not saying this happens but as an example, lets say laser modules execute ten times as fast as missile modules during extreme lag, and drones don't fire at all. I'm sure you can see problems with that.)

On the topic of Jita, even though this has already been brought up before but you chose to once again ignore it: Jita is already on its own node, it will not lag from 1000 players being docked (Did I mention tidi doesn't affect anything while docked btw?), in fact, you could have a fleet fight in jita and it'd be one hell of a lot more stable than most null systems right now.

You also seem concerned about tidi slowing down entire nodes... because of the way eve is hosted (and I'm not talking from my own knowledge here, since only ccp can answer into more detail how the eve cluster looks), there is no way to slow down single systems. However, a highsec system is only very rarely on the same node as a low/nullsec one, so a carebear (I presume) such as yourself is never going to be affected.

And lets for a second assume that "Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that."... you do realize many fights today take an insane amount of time because of the lag already? As a matter of fact, tidi will just alleviate things for those players, it won't make it take any more time than it already takes.

Hopefully that clears some things up in case you were actually serious about your concerns and not just trolling.
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-11-07 23:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemesis Factor
Alex Sinai wrote:
As far as I experienced time dilation I can already tell you its a very bad idea.

Honestly I didnt liked it from the start. Since i work in IT i know exactly why they decided to do it. Cost cutting. It have nothing to do with lag. It have everything to do with spending cash on hardware.

The way it is implemented on SiSi now if it goes like this to TQ I can promise you, it will be the end of EVE. The exodus like Summer one, it will be tiny wind comparing to the shitstorm CCP will receive.

Either get rid of that time dilation or make it optional for each player. Or limit it to combat only. Because the way it is now, EVE going to be deserted in a day. Just like SWG after NGO.


Quoting an idiot with my main to throw it in his face later.


Alex Sinai wrote:
In practice it will lead to players being increasingly annoyed by time dilation each time they fly to Jita for example. It will be more then enough 5-10 times to do that for player to unsubscribe. Why? Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance. Try that a few times and it becomes a game breaker for players. Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that. But how many of these are in the game? A very low thousands. And even these numbers will fall due to same psychological discomfort feeling since some systems will stay overtly populated and other reasons which will kick in when population of server diminishes below certain levels. What of that you don't understand.


I just read that and... Are you- you are dumb.

JITA won't have TiDi because JITA isn't laggy. It has it's own supernode and functions just fine under the player cap. stupid

If slow time is PHYCOLOGICALLY UNCOMFORTABLE, then so is lag, which is the ONLY time TiDi kicks. So it's either jittery slow lag, or smooth slow TiDi. stupid.

You act like people are going to be subject to bullet time whereas before they only dealth with real time. They're going to be putting up with slow time over EVEN SLOWER TIME.
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-11-08 01:43:01 UTC
Nemesis Factor wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
As far as I experienced time dilation I can already tell you its a very bad idea.

Honestly I didnt liked it from the start. Since i work in IT i know exactly why they decided to do it. Cost cutting. It have nothing to do with lag. It have everything to do with spending cash on hardware.

The way it is implemented on SiSi now if it goes like this to TQ I can promise you, it will be the end of EVE. The exodus like Summer one, it will be tiny wind comparing to the shitstorm CCP will receive.

Either get rid of that time dilation or make it optional for each player. Or limit it to combat only. Because the way it is now, EVE going to be deserted in a day. Just like SWG after NGO.


Quoting an idiot with my main to throw it in his face later.


Alex Sinai wrote:
In practice it will lead to players being increasingly annoyed by time dilation each time they fly to Jita for example. It will be more then enough 5-10 times to do that for player to unsubscribe. Why? Because what is not really taken into account is "time" feeling of human being. When it slows down it is psychologically uncomfortable and creates a feeling of disturbance. Try that a few times and it becomes a game breaker for players. Only hard core die hard EVE players will try to handle that. But how many of these are in the game? A very low thousands. And even these numbers will fall due to same psychological discomfort feeling since some systems will stay overtly populated and other reasons which will kick in when population of server diminishes below certain levels. What of that you don't understand.


I just read that and... Are you- you are dumb.

JITA won't have TiDi because JITA isn't laggy. It has it's own supernode and functions just fine under the player cap. stupid

If slow time is PHYCOLOGICALLY UNCOMFORTABLE, then so is lag, which is the ONLY time TiDi kicks. So it's either jittery slow lag, or smooth slow TiDi. stupid.

You act like people are going to be subject to bullet time whereas before they only dealth with real time. They're going to be putting up with slow time over EVEN SLOWER TIME.


he is under impression that Tidi will just randonly afflict empire systems cause on sisi they Tidi'd the **** out of some hisec systems for some reason, either to test it or cause sisi couldn't handle the load because it has so much less capacity than TQ. either way, he has gone form there to becoming a raging idiot who believes tidi will afflict TQ in the same way and randomly strike hisec systems, he does not read others' posts and he believes that because he knows something about IT he necessarily has a greater grasp of eve than everyone else.
12Next page