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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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how about fixing launchers vs guns once and for all?
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CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-21 14:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
Since it's ridiculous that so many launcher hulls are pointless at many activities - these are my thoughts:


pick one:

1. make all missiles fly ridiculously fast and delete FOF-s from game.

2. make guns shoot about 50% at activation - would mimic loading-aiming-shooting-discarding etc.

3. make all kind of projectiles travel like missiles but balance them out so missiles fly a bit faster / projectile travels a bit slower compared to nowadays - oh and those lazors, make them "burn" Make em hit target and be activated for some time and apply damage about same time as projectile would hit.




This would hemogenize attack modules but then again it would make fleets ALOT more verastile and interesting.

It's already boring to watch only vindis/machs in incursions or projectile boats only in PVP.

oh and that "missiles not doing damage" after warp button has pressed is just **** game design.. honestly.
why can gunboats warp, lock - hit, warp away guns on cooldown and missile boats not? comon now....
Mr Doctor
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2013-06-21 14:43:28 UTC
So you want missiles to be guns? Missiles have their advantages over guns in certain circumstances and like most things in Eve its the right tools for the jobs.

I do think having TDs affect missiles is a big mistake if it ever does go through though.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#3 - 2013-06-21 14:47:49 UTC
Mr Doctor wrote:
So you want missiles to be guns? Missiles have their advantages over guns in certain circumstances and like most things in Eve its the right tools for the jobs.

I do think having TDs affect missiles is a big mistake if it ever does go through though.


This. Please don't ask for the game to be dumbed down any more!

Missiles hit if they can reach their target every time. Guns miss if you can't track your target.

Missiles can be picked for a specific damage type. Harder with most ammo.

Missiles can be destroyed (firewall, for example)

As Mr Doctor quite correctly states, all weapon systems have advantages and disadvantages over each other. This is working as intended.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-06-21 14:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
Mr Doctor wrote:
So you want missiles to be guns? Missiles have their advantages over guns in certain circumstances and like most things in Eve its the right tools for the jobs.

I do think having TDs affect missiles is a big mistake if it ever does go through though.


You got that right. Or guns be like launchers.




Oh and game is dumbed down atm... making missiles viable in more than only lvl4 missions would make eve better for everyone.


how damn great is that guns here guns there... take your gunboat or gtfo ?! what gives? want to be even more boring?
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#5 - 2013-06-21 14:56:49 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
Oh and game is dumbed down atm... making missiles viable in more than only lvl4 missions would make eve better for everyone.

how damn great is that guns here guns there... take your gunboat or gtfo ?! what gives? want to be even more boring?

Don't take this offensively but are you just having a bit of a rant? I'm finding it difficult to follow you.

Missiles are viable outside of lvl4 missions. I use them in PvP quite a lot, actually.

If you're being told you can't use missiles in a fleet which is using guns then there may well be a very good reason for it. If you're talking solo PvP then you're doing it wrong.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-06-21 15:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
you are right about missiles but they are still so much more subbar to projectiles/lazors in eve.

All I want is to see is that all hulls could be used together and player can actually scroll through piles of ships in hangar and go out with the one that he likes today.. not which is FOTM for some specific activity.

that is all.

maybe im just burnt out or bittervet.. been in eve since 2005.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#7 - 2013-06-21 15:30:44 UTC
Having played a lot of mmo games I'd say what you want is impossible. True balance can only be achieved by making things exactly the same.

As this would make for a very boring game CCP are doing their level best to balance things without making everything the same. That said, a lot of the variation between the races is being lost in the pursuit of balance as has been stated many times by many people on these forums. Whether you think this is for better or worse is a matter of opinion.

Unfortunately FOTM is inevitable as people discover configurations from the changes the devs make which, often, the devs didn't think of when balancing. Then it becomes obvious it's too powerful so it gets nerfed and the next best becomes the best. In actual fact this is less prevalent in EVE than any other MMO I've played, as far as I can tell.

As for being a bittervet, I shouldn't worry about it. It's something of a natural human progression. People who've done the same job for 8 years also complain about their job. It's natural and there is a cure. Leave for 6 months then come back and you'll often have a new leave of life. Big smile
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-06-21 15:52:40 UTC
I have no problems with projectiles doing instant damage at over 200km somehow. Also that the universe is made of mineral oil and rubber "collidible" objects.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#9 - 2013-06-21 17:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Itiner
When I was trying out the game with another account, I trained up and fitted beam lasers, on the assumption that they have a better chance of hitting their target, since the beam can be swept along while active. I was wrong, they were the same, mechanics-wise, as pulse lasers.

If there's one thing I support from the rant of the opening post, it's that beam lasers be time-dependent: the beam activates, and the turret tracks the target according to transverse velocity and tracking speed, dealing damage per tick of the clock during a longer activation time on the order of 1-2 seconds. If the target is too fast, they would still be dealt a modicum of damage, even if the beam just glanced their ship, while slow targets would take damage during the whole duration of the activation, for a greater cumulative damage. In return, the cycle time of beam lasers could be lengthened to 2-4 s, to account for dumping the waste heat resulting from the continuous activation, with Amarr ships getting a bonus to this cycle time, due to the racial laser specialization.
Similarly, beam lasers could dish out greater damage, due to the greater energy density of the short pulse, but if the target travels too fast, they have next to no chance of scoring a hit. Since they are short pulses, their activation times could be ignored, with the white ring depicting the whole cycle time of 0,5-1 s overall.
Timing is variable, numbers are to illustrate orders, not as exact values.

This way, at least beams would be beams and pulses would be pulses.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#10 - 2013-06-21 18:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
ah, another make-all-the-same-thread.

If you dont like missiles. why dont you train for guns then?
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-21 18:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
it would be good for consistency and variance if projectiles did behave more like rockets on speed.
But it would kill the server to do so i imagine....fozzie said something along those lines .

On Beams yes it would be nice if they felt more powerful and epic compared to pulses as there is very little difference between the two visually or in mechanics i'm sure CCP could do something with that and maybe make blasters more visually impactful too aswell as projectiles maybe having a little mini explosion or something.. maybe more arties than autos.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#12 - 2013-06-21 21:21:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
look, if you want the speed of guns along with the chance of missing, use guns.
if you want the accuracy of missiles, use missiles.

i think it should be more realistic.

lazers, instantaneous hit, no or very little chance of miss. the pulse style should shoot 4 shots and rest. after all, it IS 4 capacitors discharging in sequence. just like the sound the medium pulse used to make and the light pulse make. zub zub zub zub.
only slower and deeper. it should rattle my subwoofer.

hybrids travel a LOT faster than projectiles. projectiles are magnetically slung which is actually faster. the australian military has a prototype rail gun that can fire 1 million rounds a minute. the travel time of the slug propelled should have a quicker flight time.
also, damage type should be whatever you can shove down the barrel and magnetize, so i can see emp style wrapped in some ferrous material or some ferrous/ceramic-superconductive sabot and flung at hypersonic speeds.

projectiles are propelled by gun powder which is the slowest of all 3 turret based styles. we studied the 16" cannons in the navy when i went through school. we had to learn flight time (which was 45 seconds for 26 miles now, do the math on 150km).
they had to incorperate the earths rotation into the equation because the city we were to fire on would be in a different place once the bullet traveled. so why is it projectiles hit instantly in this game? they should be slowed down and introduce a higher chance of inaccuracy (and maybe a higher alpha to compensate. if they slug it out against imobile targets, wrecking shots should be devistation, but they should rarely get them on a moving target).

finally missiles. missiles have a chance to hit everything. they are a "fire and see how much damage" thing. ships dont get inside our tracking range, they get outside our speed. speed and sig render missiles AND guns useless.

there are all kinds of ewar that could be added. some spoof where you are (like the WWII bear bombers would project themselves up to 50 or so feet away by sending false signals back). we could ad jammers that introduce positioning error to cause missiles to chase "ghost images". once they break through the "image" (radar signal trickery), they would actually have to travel to the intended target if they still had fuel. we could introduce anti-missile defense systems like real guardian missiles or a close in anti-missile gattling gun (CIWS) for those ships that have no missile slots.

point is, if u want missiles, then use missiles with all their draw backs. if u want guns, use guns with all their draw backs.
pick a system.
personally, i want transporter bombs. once your shields go down, i can transport a bomb onto your ship and pod you and salvage the ship.

but i dont see that happening...=)
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#13 - 2013-06-21 21:36:24 UTC
It seems someone read Schlock Mercenary and the first use of Terapedos, or teleporting torpedos...Big smile

That out of the way, I would like to see missile decoys as well. Maybe even fitted on non-combatant ships, such as miners, transports, and logistic vessels, so they can at least gain some breathing space when being shot at.

Also, projectiles are supposed to be rail-driven too, just shaped rounds, not the simple cylindrical slug of hybrid railguns. But that's basically irrelevant, since flight times are probably incorporated into the tracking equation as a hidden variable, and even though there's a skill named flat out "Evasive Maneuvers", you're restricted to orbiting at a fixed distance at constant speed, or keeping range by moving towards or away at constant speed, so you can't actually execute a sudden sharp turn that would throw off turret tracking and cause the shot to miss while in-flight.
While actual manual flight would be awesome, it would represent too great a change all of a sudden, and would have to be followed up by manual turret control too, which is a nigh-impossibility on ships with many hardpoints all over the hull having to be aimed manually all at once. It would also probably increase network traffic and client complexity to the point the cluster would catch on fire...