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Gnosis passive tank vs Myrmidon
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Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#1 - 2013-06-21 11:05:50 UTC
So today I use a passive shield tank Myrmidon to just grind up lvl 1-3 missions to get enough standing for epic arcs or whatever.
However I got my eyes on the Gnosis.
In my eyes it should be better than the Myrmidon as a passive shield tank with 1 more medium slot and not much other differences, some resist adjustment but the total resist amounts to the same.

I tried fitting them in EFT, and just doing this the easy way, going all Shield Power Relay II in low, Large Shield Extender II in medium and Medium Core Def Field Purger II.

They both have the same total amount of resists in total and i compare it to uniform damage.

The Gnosis shows Effective HP 46459 and the Mymidon shows 42935.
I run with All lvl 5 skills.
When i look at the "Defence" thing however it says that the Myrmidon sits at 839 while the Gnosis sits at 558?
For Uniform damage, not picking any special, so what am I missing?
How can the Myrmidon have 281 more def with less Effective HP and less medium slots.
It this a bug or did i miss something?
Perihelion Olenard
#2 - 2013-06-21 11:26:15 UTC
Look at the base shield recharge time of each ship.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-06-21 11:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Callan
Ypzon wrote:
So today I use a passive shield tank Myrmidon to just grind up lvl 1-3 missions to get enough standing for epic arcs or whatever.
However I got my eyes on the Gnosis.
In my eyes it should be better than the Myrmidon as a passive shield tank with 1 more medium slot and not much other differences, some resist adjustment but the total resist amounts to the same.

I tried fitting them in EFT, and just doing this the easy way, going all Shield Power Relay II in low, Large Shield Extender II in medium and Medium Core Def Field Purger II.

They both have the same total amount of resists in total and i compare it to uniform damage.

The Gnosis shows Effective HP 46459 and the Mymidon shows 42935.
I run with All lvl 5 skills.
When i look at the "Defence" thing however it says that the Myrmidon sits at 839 while the Gnosis sits at 558?
For Uniform damage, not picking any special, so what am I missing?
How can the Myrmidon have 281 more def with less Effective HP and less medium slots.
It this a bug or did i miss something?


Don't look so heavily at the total EHP number; in EFT, hover your mouse over your raw shield numbers, which will bring up a tooltip showing your ship's raw shield HP, recharge rate, and effective HP bearing resistances in mind.

The discrepancy is answered by the shield recharge rate; the basic Myrmidon has a peak recharge rate of 6.25 hp/s to the Gnosis's 4.00 hp/s, assuming an unskilled pilot in a blank hull. Thus, while the Gnosis has a larger shield buffer, it takes more sustained incoming fire to break the Myrmidon's peak recharge.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#4 - 2013-06-21 11:31:09 UTC
The Gnosis has a bad shield recharge rate.
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#5 - 2013-06-21 11:51:13 UTC
Ugh, to bad.. i knew i was missing something :)
And here i thought i could find a good drone and missile ship.
Maybe its not ment for passive tanking, anyone know a good perma tank build that is very good on a Gnosis?
I want the option to be able to look away for other stuff which is why i want the perma tank while drones handle stuff, and on the other hand if i feel like doing it faster its nice i can have 5 heavy missiles on it.
Just need to find a way to fit it all in with a good enough tank so i dont risk losing it at lvl 1-3 missions.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-21 13:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
What do you mean by passive tank? -buffer?

Yeah fit full plates and you'll kill that Myrmidon before he takes out 50% of your EHP Lol

On a serious note, take a close look at one and other resists profile, you'll see one has omni resists and the other some low other high thus completely changing tank modules and the final result.

In the end I'd say go for mastodon buffer on gnosis unless XL'ASB fancy fits and play the regular dual rep Myrm that became a lot better with the new AAR despite these being in need of a higher buff but still, interesting.

Gnosis gets a double/Triple weapon bonus, Myrmidon ...Welp.
Slots layout goes for Gnosis, Myrmidon...Welp.

Both are great ships but despite you can play them equally or use them for same tasks one is better overall imho: gnosis.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-06-21 14:06:51 UTC
A gnosis is worse than all the racial battlecruiser at everything apart from one: multitasking

Art of Explosions
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#8 - 2013-06-21 14:06:52 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
What do you mean by passive tank? -buffer?

Yeah fit full plates and you'll kill that Myrmidon before he takes out 50% of your EHP Lol

On a serious note, take a close look at one and other resists profile, you'll see one has omni resists and the other some low other high thus completely changing tank modules and the final result.

In the end I'd say go for mastodon buffer on gnosis unless XL'ASB fancy fits and play the regular dual rep Myrm that became a lot better with the new AAR despite these being in need of a higher buff but still, interesting.

Gnosis gets a double/Triple weapon bonus, Myrmidon ...Welp.
Slots layout goes for Gnosis, Myrmidon...Welp.

Both are great ships but despite you can play them equally or use them for same tasks one is better overall imho: gnosis.


Passive shield tank, fitted with what i described.
I want something that runs endlessly on the gnosis and that has a very strong tank so i dont need to worry about going afk in a lvl 3 mission and coming back to a dead ship pretty much. :P
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-21 14:09:56 UTC
If you want an unkillable ship for 3s you want the passive drake

Art of Explosions
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-06-21 14:11:35 UTC
Ypzon wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
What do you mean by passive tank? -buffer?

Yeah fit full plates and you'll kill that Myrmidon before he takes out 50% of your EHP Lol

On a serious note, take a close look at one and other resists profile, you'll see one has omni resists and the other some low other high thus completely changing tank modules and the final result.

In the end I'd say go for mastodon buffer on gnosis unless XL'ASB fancy fits and play the regular dual rep Myrm that became a lot better with the new AAR despite these being in need of a higher buff but still, interesting.

Gnosis gets a double/Triple weapon bonus, Myrmidon ...Welp.
Slots layout goes for Gnosis, Myrmidon...Welp.

Both are great ships but despite you can play them equally or use them for same tasks one is better overall imho: gnosis.


Passive shield tank, fitted with what i described.
I want something that runs endlessly on the gnosis and that has a very strong tank so i dont need to worry about going afk in a lvl 3 mission and coming back to a dead ship pretty much. :P



Thing is that you have no much choices on that ship imho meant to either active tank or tank with gank.

Change your shield extender rigs for purgers and you get a thinner tank, add 1 prop mod +4hardeners and you're left with a single shield extender, you can fit low slot shield regen mods but then you're either loosing guns/missiles or drones dps.

If you really really want a passive shield tank ship with drones take a navy vexor or an ishtar, not the Myrmidon or Gnosis

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#11 - 2013-06-21 14:13:06 UTC
Yeah but i want it on the Gnosis since it gets bonus damage to drones and bonus damage to missiles.
So i can drop out my drones and just sit back, and use the missiles if i want to speed things up. :)
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#12 - 2013-06-21 14:14:13 UTC
It doesnt have to be a passive one for the gnosis, as long as it is cap stable when having all things running and a very good tank.
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-21 14:19:22 UTC
Drones + Missiles + Strong passive shield tank = Gila
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-06-21 14:29:22 UTC
The Gnosis is more of a general-purpose tool. It can do practically anything that any other combat battlecruiser can do, just not as well. It might be able to field a passive shield tank heavy enough to manage a Level 3 mission if flown carefully, but it won't have the safety margin of a Drake's resists. I suspect that any more specialized battlecruiser will out-perform the Gnosis in at least one area.

And if you're running a mission and need to go AFK, for pity's sake, dock up or safe up. With the improved NPC AI, you can't let your drones do all the work while you crack open a beer any more, and a Gnosis is serious gank bait for anyone who wants to show off something shiny on his kill board.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#15 - 2013-06-21 14:52:15 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
The Gnosis is more of a general-purpose tool. It can do practically anything that any other combat battlecruiser can do, just not as well. It might be able to field a passive shield tank heavy enough to manage a Level 3 mission if flown carefully, but it won't have the safety margin of a Drake's resists. I suspect that any more specialized battlecruiser will out-perform the Gnosis in at least one area.

And if you're running a mission and need to go AFK, for pity's sake, dock up or safe up. With the improved NPC AI, you can't let your drones do all the work while you crack open a beer any more, and a Gnosis is serious gank bait for anyone who wants to show off something shiny on his kill board.


Actually as long as you stay on using small drones i seem to be fine in my Myrmidon doing it for now.

I guess im just hoping for a drone + missile combo that has a very strong tank that i can afk with or not even afk, just tab out and surf the internet while the drones clean up or if i want to speed up i turn on the missiles.

Ill look up the Gila, maybe its more in the lines of what im looking for. :)
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#16 - 2013-06-21 16:24:16 UTC
Gila has 125mb drone bandwidth and much larger bay than the myrm

[Gila, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Ogre II x5
1% cpu implant needed
900 DPS
150ish DPS omni tank
exchange DPS for shield relays for more tank