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Why We Should Support Off Grid Boosting
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Dave Stark
#121 - 2013-06-21 07:56:09 UTC
having thought about it, if you bring boosts on grid you'll never be short of a drone bunny in incursions. assign your drones to the command ship, huzzah!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#122 - 2013-06-21 08:00:15 UTC
Quote:
As I mentioned earlier boosters do not win fights.


Ok, so in this case, what problem do you have with removing it? That's the trick here. It's not disputable that they are basically untouchable. So either they are super good in which case they are the weight of the balance between fleets too often, or they're irrelevant. If you're making the case that they aren't relevant, then why keep them in the game?

Quote:
Test has a booster alt and got annihilated.

In that video you see a t3 fleet with a vulture booster and a scmi pilot take on t1 bc's. The t1 bc's didnt have any boosts and they still won.

Im showing examples... how about you all?


First of all, I have to take issue with the fleet fight you linked. That was an example of someone taking full, full advantage of the pre-nerf ASBs in a shield heavy fleet comp to take out TEST's terribad fleet. Furthermore, MI took out the Vulture pretty damn fast, so I'd say they considered the boosts a threat.

So yeah, I'd say that's at least somewhat a case of TEST just being a bunch of whelpers in that tourney match.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2013-06-21 10:46:22 UTC
Mr M wrote:
No, you're wrong. No risk, no gain. No boosting ship on grid, no boost.


This.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#124 - 2013-06-21 10:51:59 UTC
I really wish people would learn what 'Pay to Win' means (hint: Eve is not), when people claim that PLEX is play to win it undermines the whole argument against actual pay to win micro-transactions.

If you do believe Eve is pay to win explain how the advantage given to me by multiple accounts is pay to win when I don't directly spend any money on the game? (p.s. I don't OGB but I have in the past)
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#125 - 2013-06-21 10:56:49 UTC
Off grid boosting should be nerfed to hell.

Boost on grid mining by a lot (rorqual having the biggest boost of all). Don't you think it is quite stupid to give a bonus to a whole fleet when you are somewhere in a safe?

Risk VS reward anyone?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#126 - 2013-06-21 11:21:30 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
It was my understanding that the bonuses were going to be scaled down fairly significantly.

I haven't seen anything suggesting this to be true. The last dev post I saw on the subject seemed to be suggesting no change from today's link strengths.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
As for the gang link nerf discussion. It's extremely clear that the addition of the 5% bonused T3s combined with the T2 gang link modules created a perfect storm with gang boosts. These have become far too powerful and it has become almost impossible to compete without a booster alt. We're not switching command ship and T3 bonuses straight up because 5% links are overpowered, so everyone should probably start getting used to that idea.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145578#post2145578
CCP Fozzie wrote:
My official position on this issue is as follows:

5% link bonuses are broken powerful, and I'm going to stab them in their metaphorical eye and then wiggle the knife.
In game.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145939#post2145939

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Command and Conquer
Tech 3 treatment will focus on making them more generalized. Their Warfare Link bonuses will be reduced from 5% to 2% effectiveness; however they will have bonuses to three racial Warfare Link fields while being able to fit three Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
...
Here is a picture summarizing the text below as a tl;dr version

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-to-the-balancing-future/
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2013-06-21 12:54:45 UTC
Benjen Gelade wrote:
The Mining Argument

In EVE it is not convenient for miners to use mining boosts on grid. The only way for them to mine properly is for them to have a Rorqual provide boosts, at zero risk, from inside POS shields. It is totally unreasonable to ask them to risk in game assets. Everybody in the know agrees on this.

As OGB must remain for mining purposes, it therefore must remain for combat purposes. The reason for this is because CCP cannot code a new 'role bonus' for the Rorqual, allowing it to be the only ship that can provide system wide links, and only for mining links.


A better idea would be to allow the Rorqual to give bonuses without being sieged. If you want those fleet bonuses, you should have to risk those assets like everyone else will have to.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#128 - 2013-06-21 13:41:05 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
I really wish people would learn what 'Pay to Win' means (hint: Eve is not), when people claim that PLEX is play to win it undermines the whole argument against actual pay to win micro-transactions.

If you do believe Eve is pay to win explain how the advantage given to me by multiple accounts is pay to win when I don't directly spend any money on the game? (p.s. I don't OGB but I have in the past)


So all the OGB accounts payed for with normal sub. cash are bad?

But the OGB accounts fueld with PLEX are legit gameplay advantage?

In the end it's a risk/reward argument. You shouldn't be able to BUY an untouchable/invulnerable combat advantage, period.

Instead of trying to split hairs on whether PLEX invalidates a 'pay to win' scheme, perhaps you should broaden your definition of just what pay to win is. Who says it has to be cash? And it all falls apart if I ACTUALLY CAN purely fund this advantage with RL cash (which you can.)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-06-21 14:10:07 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:
I really wish people would learn what 'Pay to Win' means (hint: Eve is not), when people claim that PLEX is play to win it undermines the whole argument against actual pay to win micro-transactions.

If you do believe Eve is pay to win explain how the advantage given to me by multiple accounts is pay to win when I don't directly spend any money on the game? (p.s. I don't OGB but I have in the past)


So all the OGB accounts payed for with normal sub. cash are bad?

But the OGB accounts fueld with PLEX are legit gameplay advantage?

In the end it's a risk/reward argument. You shouldn't be able to BUY an untouchable/invulnerable combat advantage, period.

Instead of trying to split hairs on whether PLEX invalidates a 'pay to win' scheme, perhaps you should broaden your definition of just what pay to win is. Who says it has to be cash? And it all falls apart if I ACTUALLY CAN purely fund this advantage with RL cash (which you can.)


You can fund this advantage with out spending money aswell, so it's not pay to win.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#130 - 2013-06-21 14:10:27 UTC
Quick question : Does the one who fights with the bonus of an OGB will dare to fight without it ?

if the answer is "no", then OGB is more a handicap than a benefit. Big smile

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#131 - 2013-06-21 15:40:14 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
...


I remember that. That doesn't seem to have remained true over time, and doesn't mention an outright nerf of gang link strength. Command Ships in particular don't seem to be taking a hit. It's just not going to do anything to fix the situation.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#132 - 2013-06-21 15:54:49 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Let me know what fit you use to get 50% bonus to all stats. How do I increase my dps by that much? Still havent seen an example of lesser incapable ships killing a much larger more capable fleet.


Really want to know what it looks like a very expensive fitted ship with top booster alt, pirate implants etc is capable of??

If you really never watched this you're doing it wrong and will never understand why it's so bad.

Skip the "Tengu" part and replace it for Proteus, Legion, Loki, Adestria, Mimir or any real good base ship. If you think links are not OP you're either doing it wrong or you never crossed a good player route with these.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#133 - 2013-06-21 15:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
imagine if eve was like wow where when you lost your ship and only you could get the droped mods and moreover all the mods on the ship dropped.

Then all of a sudden one day CCP said ok guys not only are half of the mods going to be destroyed on the drop but now anyone can loot the wrek...

do you think you would see threadnaughts complaining about how i cant bring my officer fit rifter into kitchen sink pvp anymore out of fear of loss?

i think this analogy is consistant with poeple complaining about how thier 2 billion isk mods/implans might be destroyed if you removed Off grid boosting.

Eve is a harsh harsh place and so too should boosting fleet members... Nothing in Eve should be "risk" free.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#134 - 2013-06-21 17:35:12 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Let me know what fit you use to get 50% bonus to all stats. How do I increase my dps by that much? Still havent seen an example of lesser incapable ships killing a much larger more capable fleet.


Really want to know what it looks like a very expensive fitted ship with top booster alt, pirate implants etc is capable of??

If you really never watched this you're doing it wrong and will never understand why it's so bad.

Skip the "Tengu" part and replace it for Proteus, Legion, Loki, Adestria, Mimir or any real good base ship. If you think links are not OP you're either doing it wrong or you never crossed a good player route with these.


I'm not challenging your statement here, just curious. It is not possible for a Tengu to be flown that well without OGB? I mean, he seems pretty much invincible, at least in the first few battles.
How much skill is involved, or is OGB just that powerful?

Profit favors the prepared
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#135 - 2013-06-21 17:49:15 UTC
Yes Eve is a harsh world, it sure is, so deal with OGB.
And if you are complaining about "Pay to Win", that argument can be applied to any faction point/scram/web, fancy pirate implants, you deal with it
You have a problem with OGB and players that use them, well, it is not really hard to spot a toon using links, before fighting, scan the system, if you see a loki/legion/tengu, dont fight, even simpler, check their speed.
And instead of brining an ecm/logi alt bring a scanning alt. With the recent changes to probing you fellas should not have a hard time probing a ship.
Now get off of OGB's t.it
Adunh Slavy
#136 - 2013-06-21 18:05:36 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
if you see a loki/legion/tengu, dont fight



This sentiment is bad for Eve and it pops up in a lot of conversations. This is a stupid solution.

Every one stay docked. Problem fixed.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2013-06-21 18:14:01 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
Yes Eve is a harsh world, it sure is, so deal with OGB.
And if you are complaining about "Pay to Win", that argument can be applied to any faction point/scram/web, fancy pirate implants, you deal with it
You have a problem with OGB and players that use them, well, it is not really hard to spot a toon using links, before fighting, scan the system, if you see a loki/legion/tengu, dont fight, even simpler, check their speed.
And instead of brining an ecm/logi alt bring a scanning alt. With the recent changes to probing you fellas should not have a hard time probing a ship.
Now get off of OGB's t.it


EVE is supposed to be a harsh world so deal with having your booster on grid and at risk instead of hidden.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#138 - 2013-06-21 18:19:56 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:

I'm not challenging your statement here, just curious. It is not possible for a Tengu to be flown that well without OGB? I mean, he seems pretty much invincible, at least in the first few battles.
How much skill is involved, or is OGB just that powerful?


No, you really can't fly a Tengu that well without OGB. The ship fitting relies on OGBs to cover up the inherent flaws. That said, videos like that rely on a combination of things - personal skill, skillpoints, OGB, and unprepared opponents. I personally enjoy using pirate implants and OGB to take on things that I absolutely shouldn't be able to. Like taking on a Brutix and a (pre nerf) Cane in a Harpy and winning.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#139 - 2013-06-21 18:20:49 UTC

I wish that mindlink implants were moved from the boosting to the boosted.

  • The mindlinks themselves are useful to anyone in a leadership position, even if not in a "boosting ship". For example, the Siege Mindlink increases the standard 10% shield boosts to 15%. These essentially act as +5% implants already, so it's not like they are "useless" when not in a boosting ship. Likewise, Armor boosts armor +5%, Skirmish boosts agility +5%, and Info boosts targetting range +5%.

  • Name an implant that gives +10% to any ship attribute? Mindlinks, when coupled with a booster, currently provide your ship a 10-20% bonus on one to three attributes (Like speed, tackle range, and sig radius). This makes them plenty potent implants to anyone that can fit them, even if they don't extend those bonuses to everyone in fleet!!!

  • This makes leadership skills more useful to the general pilot (who currently doesn't need any leadership skills to gains the full benefits from an alt with them... wtf).

    • There are only two reasons I can think of why this idea is "bad":
    A.) I fully acknowledge that mindlinks are in short supply, and if this is NOT addressed, they would be impractical to use (mining mindlinks are already 1b isk without every miner needing to plug one in a mindlink).

    B.) Mindlinks have high skill requirements (Cyber V, Warfare Specialist V). I could see an argument to reduce their requirements to Cyber V and Warfare Specialist IV or some such, making them easier to train into. At the same time, this puts focus on a skillset that isn't Int/Mem or Per/Will, that a specialized combat pilot should desire. I think that would be a good thing!
    maCH'EttE
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #140 - 2013-06-21 18:22:33 UTC
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    maCH'EttE wrote:
    Yes Eve is a harsh world, it sure is, so deal with OGB.
    And if you are complaining about "Pay to Win", that argument can be applied to any faction point/scram/web, fancy pirate implants, you deal with it
    You have a problem with OGB and players that use them, well, it is not really hard to spot a toon using links, before fighting, scan the system, if you see a loki/legion/tengu, dont fight, even simpler, check their speed.
    And instead of brining an ecm/logi alt bring a scanning alt. With the recent changes to probing you fellas should not have a hard time probing a ship.
    Now get off of OGB's t.it


    EVE is supposed to be a harsh world so deal with having your booster on grid and at risk instead of hidden.

    look mutt, i aint your mom, get of my t.it.