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Why We Should Support Off Grid Boosting

Author
Gorgoth24
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-06-21 03:51:28 UTC
I think it's odd that the this situation hasn't been talked about

Two fleets of identical cheap, T1 ships engage. One with OGB wins over one without OGB.

While OGB gives amazing abilities to solo pilots, it also allows those solo pilots to **** other solo/small gang pilots with impunity even with the same, or cheaper, ships. I can't count the number of times a "slow" ship was able to catch a "fast" ship because of OGB. Or the number of times I've seen a "solo" Condor hit 5 or 6km/s. And even if I do manage to kill that Condor, I've killed 15m of his billion isk setup. OGB is bad for the REAL solo/small gang.

I'm for removing OGB not because I'm a blobber, but because I'm a solo/small gang PvP'er. OGB is bad for solo/small gang because it makes OGB more important then pilot skill.

Nuff said
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#102 - 2013-06-21 04:51:09 UTC
Gorgoth24 wrote:
I think it's odd that the this situation hasn't been talked about

Two fleets of identical cheap, T1 ships engage. One with OGB wins over one without OGB.

While OGB gives amazing abilities to solo pilots, it also allows those solo pilots to **** other solo/small gang pilots with impunity even with the same, or cheaper, ships. I can't count the number of times a "slow" ship was able to catch a "fast" ship because of OGB. Or the number of times I've seen a "solo" Condor hit 5 or 6km/s. And even if I do manage to kill that Condor, I've killed 15m of his billion isk setup. OGB is bad for the REAL solo/small gang.

I'm for removing OGB not because I'm a blobber, but because I'm a solo/small gang PvP'er. OGB is bad for solo/small gang because it makes OGB more important then pilot skill.

Nuff said



This equation involves much much more than a fight with identical ships. Honestly a fight like that would never happen considering every pilot would need to have identical skill points, identical intelligence, identical velocity, identical timing to lock onto targets and fire when told, identical field positioning, and identical implants. Do you understand the odds of all of these things being identical??????

OGBs are one of the many tools solo pvpers have at their disposal. The most important alt in all of eve is actually a scouting alt. Before a solo pvper even makes their presence known they have already laid their eyes upon you and did their homework. A good solo pvper doesnt require on boosts to get kills. A good solo pvper knows when to fight and when not to fight. Knowing someones age, previous corp history, past losses, and associated FCs can really sum up a pilot.

Next time you get in a fight with a good player do not think it happened by chance. They knew what they were doing and wanted it that way. OGB is this years excuse as to why a bunch of misinformed pvpers died to informed pvpers. Last year it was logi and ecm.

Eventually my logic will set in to your brain. Either you will accept it and stop posting or you will continue to post in spite of me.

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#103 - 2013-06-21 04:52:02 UTC
OGB needs to go because it's mandatory for small gang/"solo" PvP these days. It's not an elite club anymore. Everyone has one, so relatively, they're a wash, and I don't want to have to lug around a booster alt just to be on an even playing field (to make it clear, I can afford to do so, and do do so, but would really rather not have to wait a minute before every fight until everyone gets their OGB(s) safely safed so they feel comfortable starting to pew).
Gorgoth24
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-06-21 05:30:02 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:

This equation involves much much more than a fight with identical ships. Honestly a fight like that would never happen..blah blah....


Stabber (quick cruiser) vs. thorax (armor tanked cruiser, supposedly slower) thorax ends up being faster then stabber b/c OGB.

Any solo maulus/condor/hookbill pilot w/ OGB attacking basically any cruiser makes it impossible to even attempt the sling, even on a quick ship

Armor SFIs OH'ing faster then Cyna's base

T3's with enormous point ranges and web ranges with ridiculous speed engaging small-gangs and raping total face

These situations go on and on. OGB gives pay to win players more pay to win without risking any on-grid assets. It's broken, it breaks solo/small gang, and it should be removed
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#105 - 2013-06-21 05:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
posting in a semi-afk-cloak " I do not want to put my Orca/rorq boost on grid and secure it with scouts and support fleet" thread.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#106 - 2013-06-21 06:00:00 UTC
Gorgoth24 wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:

This equation involves much much more than a fight with identical ships. Honestly a fight like that would never happen..blah blah....


Stabber (quick cruiser) vs. thorax (armor tanked cruiser, supposedly slower) thorax ends up being faster then stabber b/c OGB.

Any solo maulus/condor/hookbill pilot w/ OGB attacking basically any cruiser makes it impossible to even attempt the sling, even on a quick ship

Armor SFIs OH'ing faster then Cyna's base

T3's with enormous point ranges and web ranges with ridiculous speed engaging small-gangs and raping total face

These situations go on and on. OGB gives pay to win players more pay to win without risking any on-grid assets. It's broken, it breaks solo/small gang, and it should be removed



Its the pilot that matters, not the ship.

Next

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#107 - 2013-06-21 06:24:55 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Gorgoth24 wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:

This equation involves much much more than a fight with identical ships. Honestly a fight like that would never happen..blah blah....


Stabber (quick cruiser) vs. thorax (armor tanked cruiser, supposedly slower) thorax ends up being faster then stabber b/c OGB.

Any solo maulus/condor/hookbill pilot w/ OGB attacking basically any cruiser makes it impossible to even attempt the sling, even on a quick ship

Armor SFIs OH'ing faster then Cyna's base

T3's with enormous point ranges and web ranges with ridiculous speed engaging small-gangs and raping total face

These situations go on and on. OGB gives pay to win players more pay to win without risking any on-grid assets. It's broken, it breaks solo/small gang, and it should be removed



Its the pilot that matters, not the ship.

Next


Just buying better stuff is not being a more skilled pilot. In the case of OGB it is exactly the ship not the pilot skills that is making the win because the hull you're flying is doing things that it cannot be reasonably expected to do.

I can detect it (to an extent) but I can't counter it bar the ridiculous extreme of buying and running my own alt that follows me everywhere. I could bring friends but so could he but all with greatly increased stats.
Troezar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2013-06-21 06:31:05 UTC
Why not make boosts scale with distance from the fleet? On grid get a nice fat bonus, off grid gives a much smaller one. Greater risk is rewarded. Then buff command ships to make them a pita to kill, with obviously reduced offensive capabilities.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#109 - 2013-06-21 06:42:07 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Getting rid of gank links = Getting rid of 12,000,000 skill points

Stick to your day job


I'm ok with this, and I'd be one of the people losing that much on a whole bunch of characters. Hell, I'd be ok with losing it with no compensation too.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2013-06-21 06:43:25 UTC
I say edgy stuff I actually don't believe and sign my posts too.

-James

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#111 - 2013-06-21 06:46:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I say edgy stuff I actually don't believe and sign my posts too.

-James


It's apparent that we're going to have OGB removed in some fashion. I'd rather it be in a fashion that isn't just bad.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#112 - 2013-06-21 06:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Actually I do not think pvp gangs have a problem with on-grid boosting. Even in fields like gate camping it does not make a big difference ...just one more interaction to warp the booster on grid.
Bring it on.

"Solo" pilots and faction warefare probably will be nerfed by ongrid boosting...and of course miners in 0.0 should park one or two ecm - burst scorps next to their orcas in the belts (normal tacklers) and scouts in the surrounding systems...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#113 - 2013-06-21 06:53:02 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Actually I do not think pvp gangs have a problem with on-grid boosting. Even in fields like gate camping it does not make a big difference ...just one more interaction to warp the booster on grid.
Bring it on.

"Solo" pilots and faction warefare probably will be nerfed by ongrid boosting...and of course miners in 0.0 should park one or two ecm - burst scorps next to their orcas in the belts (normal tacklers) and scouts in the surrounding systems...


The problem with statements like this is that "PVP gangs" is a very, very, very wide target. Narrowing it in by giving the example of a gate camp is kinda revealing, TBH. I'm personally against the idea of such huge bonuses being thrown around, whether the link ship is on grid or off. We're talking about across the board 50% bonuses being given in a game where people train months for a 2% bonus to a single attribute.

Links are OP - on grid or off.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#114 - 2013-06-21 07:00:39 UTC
Leper ofBacon wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Gorgoth24 wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:

This equation involves much much more than a fight with identical ships. Honestly a fight like that would never happen..blah blah....


Stabber (quick cruiser) vs. thorax (armor tanked cruiser, supposedly slower) thorax ends up being faster then stabber b/c OGB.

Any solo maulus/condor/hookbill pilot w/ OGB attacking basically any cruiser makes it impossible to even attempt the sling, even on a quick ship

Armor SFIs OH'ing faster then Cyna's base

T3's with enormous point ranges and web ranges with ridiculous speed engaging small-gangs and raping total face

These situations go on and on. OGB gives pay to win players more pay to win without risking any on-grid assets. It's broken, it breaks solo/small gang, and it should be removed



Its the pilot that matters, not the ship.

Next


Just buying better stuff is not being a more skilled pilot. In the case of OGB it is exactly the ship not the pilot skills that is making the win because the hull you're flying is doing things that it cannot be reasonably expected to do.

I can detect it (to an extent) but I can't counter it bar the ridiculous extreme of buying and running my own alt that follows me everywhere. I could bring friends but so could he but all with greatly increased stats.


Your comprehension level is extremely low.

Boosts on their own do not win a fight or lose one. I was getting to the point that to an extent the better pilot will win every time if he wants to.

Everyone here is talking about boosts like they make a ship invincible. Are these losses of your so close that the added 10,000 ehp of theirs destroyed your entire fleet? That the 10k extra point range kept your entire fleet tackled even though you were winning? People, boosts dont increase DPS or intelligence.

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#115 - 2013-06-21 07:06:45 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Actually I do not think pvp gangs have a problem with on-grid boosting. Even in fields like gate camping it does not make a big difference ...just one more interaction to warp the booster on grid.
Bring it on.

"Solo" pilots and faction warefare probably will be nerfed by ongrid boosting...and of course miners in 0.0 should park one or two ecm - burst scorps next to their orcas in the belts (normal tacklers) and scouts in the surrounding systems...


The problem with statements like this is that "PVP gangs" is a very, very, very wide target. Narrowing it in by giving the example of a gate camp is kinda revealing, TBH. I'm personally against the idea of such huge bonuses being thrown around, whether the link ship is on grid or off. We're talking about across the board 50% bonuses being given in a game where people train months for a 2% bonus to a single attribute.

Links are OP - on grid or off.

-Liang



Let me know what fit you use to get 50% bonus to all stats. How do I increase my dps by that much? Still havent seen an example of lesser incapable ships killing a much larger more capable fleet.


-Zeus Maximo
-Jack1974
-Vincenzo
-Malayka
-Ceo of Umad
-Director or Whores in Space
-Diplomat of Whores in Space
-Defender of Logic
-Known for podding "elite pvpers"
-Field Expert

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#116 - 2013-06-21 07:06:46 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Leper ofBacon wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Gorgoth24 wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:

This equation involves much much more than a fight with identical ships. Honestly a fight like that would never happen..blah blah....


Stabber (quick cruiser) vs. thorax (armor tanked cruiser, supposedly slower) thorax ends up being faster then stabber b/c OGB.

Any solo maulus/condor/hookbill pilot w/ OGB attacking basically any cruiser makes it impossible to even attempt the sling, even on a quick ship

Armor SFIs OH'ing faster then Cyna's base

T3's with enormous point ranges and web ranges with ridiculous speed engaging small-gangs and raping total face

These situations go on and on. OGB gives pay to win players more pay to win without risking any on-grid assets. It's broken, it breaks solo/small gang, and it should be removed



Its the pilot that matters, not the ship.

Next


Just buying better stuff is not being a more skilled pilot. In the case of OGB it is exactly the ship not the pilot skills that is making the win because the hull you're flying is doing things that it cannot be reasonably expected to do.

I can detect it (to an extent) but I can't counter it bar the ridiculous extreme of buying and running my own alt that follows me everywhere. I could bring friends but so could he but all with greatly increased stats.


Your comprehension level is extremely low.

Boosts on their own do not win a fight or lose one. I was getting to the point that to an extent the better pilot will win every time if he wants to.

Everyone here is talking about boosts like they make a ship invincible. Are these losses of your so close that the added 10,000 ehp of theirs destroyed your entire fleet? That the 10k extra point range kept your entire fleet tackled even though you were winning? People, boosts dont increase DPS or intelligence.



Actually it is excellent because I am fully comprehending your posts to the extent that I can see that you are trying to articulate a fundamentally incorrect point.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#117 - 2013-06-21 07:13:28 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:

Let me know what fit you use to get 50% bonus to all stats. How do I increase my dps by that much? Still havent seen an example of lesser incapable ships killing a much larger more capable fleet.


-Zeus Maximo
-Jack1974
-Vincenzo
-Malayka
-Ceo of Umad
-Director or Whores in Space
-Diplomat of Whores in Space
-Defender of Logic
-Known for podding "elite pvpers"
-Field Expert


You haven't seen examples of lesser incapable ships killing a much larger more capable fleet? Really? REALLLLYYYYY????? I don't think you've got much PVP experience then.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#118 - 2013-06-21 07:14:43 UTC
Quote:
Your comprehension level is extremely low.

Boosts on their own do not win a fight or lose one. I was getting to the point that to an extent the better pilot will win every time if he wants to.

Everyone here is talking about boosts like they make a ship invincible. Are these losses of your so close that the added 10,000 ehp of theirs destroyed your entire fleet? That the 10k extra point range kept your entire fleet tackled even though you were winning? People, boosts dont increase DPS or intelligence.


Were this true, the current climate wouldn't be, "OGB or don't bother". Which it is.

It's not defensible. If, as you say, skill and pilots make the difference, then you shouldn't be bothered by losing it.

But, if the reverse is true, and OGB provides a large advantage to whomever has it, then it's mandatory and both sides should be assumed to have it all the time. And the side that doesn't manage that now mandatory requirement, loses.

Either way it's a broken mechanic that cannot be allowed to continue.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#119 - 2013-06-21 07:40:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Your comprehension level is extremely low.

Boosts on their own do not win a fight or lose one. I was getting to the point that to an extent the better pilot will win every time if he wants to.

Everyone here is talking about boosts like they make a ship invincible. Are these losses of your so close that the added 10,000 ehp of theirs destroyed your entire fleet? That the 10k extra point range kept your entire fleet tackled even though you were winning? People, boosts dont increase DPS or intelligence.


Were this true, the current climate wouldn't be, "OGB or don't bother". Which it is.

It's not defensible. If, as you say, skill and pilots make the difference, then you shouldn't be bothered by losing it.

But, if the reverse is true, and OGB provides a large advantage to whomever has it, then it's mandatory and both sides should be assumed to have it all the time. And the side that doesn't manage that now mandatory requirement, loses.

Either way it's a broken mechanic that cannot be allowed to continue.


As I mentioned earlier boosters do not win fights. They may give a little more ehp or a better point range but their effects are never Direct. Alts that play much bigger roles in small gang warfare would be the likes of Logi and Falcon alts.

The main reason why I would rather use a booster alt versus a logi/falcon alt is because I can better scout out my enemy and probe them down if need be. I stated earlier that knowing everything about your enemy is much more important than your ship stats. CCP made every ship unique in this game therefore each one has a counter and can be exploited.

Please show me a fight where a booster alt directly affected a fight and gave an unfair advantage to the lesser ship.

Mildly Intoxicated vs Test

Test has a booster alt and got annihilated.

In that video you see a t3 fleet with a vulture booster and a scmi pilot take on t1 bc's. The t1 bc's didnt have any boosts and they still won.

Im showing examples... how about you all?

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#120 - 2013-06-21 07:53:05 UTC
"Good gameplay isn't actually the priority."


I giggled .

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard