Player Features and Ideas Discussion

All T2 ships have to be looked at once they're through with the T1 bracket - at least that sounded like the battle plan.



QFT. This. And That.

Echoing the comments about flavor, CCP Rise do you have any comment on the boringness of having to shield tank all inustrials, even Amarr and Gallente, because balancing toward armor tanking is thrown off by cargo expanders?

An Amarr or Galente pilot currently needs no shield tanking skills -- except for industrials. If you simply removed cargo expanders from the ship class, and then made cargo rigs hit structure instead of armor, then you could make Amarr and Gallente industrials armor tankers as they really should be.

It's not much to add, but as an Iteron pilot I really did enjoy the little breadcrumb reward of getting a new ship every time i leveled the skill as a newbie.

Ya I wouldn't mean to sound dismissive of hauling as a profession at all, I'm just saying that from a ship balance and fitting perspective, hauling isn't as complex as combat.

Maybe it could/should be, but again, I don't think this rebalance is the place to start, which is why we decided to hold off on anything drastic until we get a better sense for where industry in general is heading.

Thank you for "saving" the Mammoth,

I adore the look of the ship it sorta looks like a battlestar to me

I deliberately trained all of my PI characters into Minmatar indies just so they could use the Mammoth. I could not stand the thought of them flying ugly itty's.

I just wish the minmatar cloaky transport (Prowler) was the mammoth model and not the wreathe.

Btw while on the subject of the Prowler, I had just got used to Prowler model, after i started flying them.
I especially liked the glowing forcefield box in the middle
Then along came V3 and the look was "improved" and the box was gone!!
But at least i could still enjoy my minmatar covert ops with it's green lights and nice patterned sails.
But that also got "improved" with V3 and the things i loved about that ship were gone also.
Then of course there was the frills incident.

Anywho, it seems like the art department is not very in touch with the players when it comes to minmatar ships but that is just my opinion

It is still ok to have an opinion on here isn't it, or am I gonna get banned for writing this?

Oh well, I do like to live life on the edge :)

Quantum Rise was the "Industry Expansion".

....Oh wait.

If we're not supposed to tank industrials, why are you creating an entire collection of "Industrials focused on speed and tank"? What else do you expect people to put in the 4-6 mid slots that you have on every industrial?



No, but lots of folks are going to, which forces you to balance the ships against that assumption in order to avoid one of them being overpowered capacity-wise when fitted that way -- you even admitted as much in your original post:

"Cargo (capacity / capacity with max expanders, t1 expander rigs and all 5 skills)"

Forcing yourself to account for cargo expanders closes a lot of doors and leads to less interesting and varied ships. But it's an easy thing to fix, so why not fix it and give yourselves more freedom to vary the ships?



No more than combat ship flavor is "derived from its tank," but it's certainly an ingredient, don't you think? Gallente and Caldari gunboats have some similarities, except that Gallente ships are usually armor tanked, which makes them a little more different than they would be otherwise. The same could be -- and new players would expect it to be -- true of the industrial ships, except it's not.

As a concrete example, I don't see how a Sigil is any competition for a Badger in this proposal. The Badger is naturally shield tanked so it gets either a capacity or a speed boost from its low slots while still fit for nearly maximum tank. The Sigil meanwhile can either have a gimpy shield tank in order to match the speed and/or capacity of the Badger, or it can have a comparable armor tank but much worse speed and capacity. The Badger looks hands-down better than the Sigil, simply because the Sigil cannot be tanked as intended without sacrificing other aspects of its primary role, while the Badger requires no such compromise.



Yes, we are hoping they'll pop a little, because as you say they've been pretty uninteresting for most of EVE's history. But that's no excuse to not fix it; this is exactly the time to make them pop a little in order to improve the game for all those players who spend most of their time in EVE flying these "not very exciting" ships. If you gloss over them in order to get to your personal favorite combat ships, you're doing your playerbase a disservice. That's what we're concerned about here.



You and us both, and we appreciate your dialogue. We all just want to see this iteration done well so that we don't have to try to get your attention to do it again a year from now. :)

I'd hate for this rebalance to be considered a pin in a completed assignment and the haulers not get looked at again for another 10 years. Better to have the expectation of change 'soon' than know this is all there is.

I'm also proposing that if this IS what we're getting, please rename them to 'Industrial Haulers' or something more clearly labeling what they are. Industrial is a bit too broad.

I don't get this. It takes literally no time to train into these things now.

You could have given one of them a role as a dedicated ore hauler, or an industrial battlecruiser or whatever comes to mind. Anything would have been better than this really. Apart from pure role playing, there's no sense in racial symmetry when it takes almost no time to train into.

Liked your post, though I do not agree. I only fly cheap and fast T1 hauler setups with medium sized cargo. Anything else either travels in a freighter, a heavily tanked and boosted Orca or a cloaky BR.