Ships & Modules

I've got a question for the ship crafters around here; is it possible to create a single or dual-box setup not involving capitals that can effective clear Insturmental / Vital core reservoirs of their rats? Normally we go in with four RR tengus or three and a scimitar, but I'm curious if it's possible to clear the site with fewer vessels.

For those not familiar with these sites, here are the basics;

4x Battleships, each with approximately 600 omni DPS, up to an 18 GJ/s neut each, with web / scram, and a smattering of frigates in the vital reservoirs.

Looking for some setup that can pull off a 2400 DPS tank which is capable of surviving under 72 GJ/s of neut pressure while being webbed to approximately 30 m/s and warp scrambled. Enemy battleships have approximately 150k EHP, so a DPS tank is not really an option without dreads, which aren't practical for mass reasons. (Not to mention avoiding ganks)

Any suggestions or advice are very much appreciated; I've been banging my head against this as an intellectual exercise, but am at wit's end.

I have not tried any such fit in the sites you're talking about, but . . . it is possible to hit over 3K DPS cap stable with a Crystal set in your head, all 5 skills, and a Gist A-Type level max tank / cap fit on a Maelstrom. You will struggle to hit even 2K omni tank on any armor ship because there is no rep boosting set for armor.

So active shield tanking on a hull with either a rep bonus or resist bonus is basically your only option for sustained DPS that high against omni damage on a subcap hull. That leads to a pretty short list.

I have no idea how well this setup will fare under the neut pressure you're talking about. Maybe take two of them and drop two guns on each so you can cap chain them together.

Aside from the Mael, the Scorp Navy Issue is another good bet. Thanks to the stupid number of mids and the resist bonus, it can tank as well as the Mael and still fit four faction damage mods in the lows, so it will do a **** ton better DPS (at least against BS sized targets).

Before the resist nerf the Rattler might have been able to pull this off, but for pure maximum omni DPS it can't touch the active rep ships + Crystals after Odyssey. And its tank still drops to nothing if you get capped out and your invulns go offline, so really its "passive" tank is just as neut vulnerable as any active rep ship.

Some interesting ideas, down paths I certainly hadn't considered before.

On the rattlesnake fit; you can't jam sleeper battleships without a recon; a recon 4 falcon / rook needs at least two distortion amplifiers to keep a battleship perma-jammed, a non-bonused ship doesn't have a chance. Sleepers will routinely neut one target while applying DPS to a different one, so that could be a problem, not to mention having to keep reps on your sentries.

Once had someone try a navy scorp with dual ASBs fit; he nearly died (warped off) when the hardeners got neuted out.

If I do the math right, the difference between capacitor cost for outgoing e-transfers & the incoming e-transfer determines the amount of cap generation, and thus the neut pressure survivable. That difference (with max skills) for T2 large energy transfer is about 15 GJ/s, meaning you'd need four or five energy transfers to counter neuts alone, plus whatever was needed to feed the rep modules.

If you were cap-stable with the local rep, you'd need half the highs at least dedicated to energy transfer, which would do horrible things to DPS

Haven't considered this. Only jammed escalation triggers so far where a recon is available.



This is actually a good thing which makes things easier (the first part).

Here comes my new suggestion:

- Minimal cap for tank needed, which shouldn't be an issue since the ine ship neuted is not the one shot at. To get the tank running again, just one small energy transfer.
- Triple x-large asb with ~ 1600dps tank each. This means you need to run one and a half which should give the third one just enough time to reload.
- 1k torp damage + drones, which will probably be eaten alive
edit: if I recall correctly, those sleepers should be right on top of you and torps should be fine, right?

Downsides:
- costs a little more
- relatively hard to fit
- probably not easy to manage shield booster cycles
- relies on booster charges and therefore offers very limited time to kill the sleepers; 10 charges per minute für 2.4k dps tank and ~ 60 charges on board/loaded

[Scorpion Navy Issue, navscorp]

6x Torpedo Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Torpedo)
Corpii A-Type Small Energy Transfer Array

3x X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400)
Republic Fleet Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier

Damage Control II
2x Ballistic Control System II
2x Co-Processor II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit II

5x Hammerhead II

Here you go. At all5 skills and with Crystals this will tank 2,881 omni DPS. Lowest resist is Kinetic at 85.4% (2,523 DPS).

With the ET off, it has cap stats of +139 GJ / -53.5 GJ per second according to Pyfa. So at peak recharge it is making +85.5 net cap, which is enough to cover your 72 GJ/s neut load with a bit to spare. With two of them and a cap chain up, you should get +70 GJ/s incoming, and your cap throughput drops to +31 net at peak recharge, so you should have around +101 GJ/s to spare; a little wider margin to cover the neuting.

Damage is anemic at 539 DPS with Fury / 443 Faction, so it just depends on whether two of them is enough to get the job done (given you can tank the entire room indefinitely with either one).

Total cost is 4.7B by Pyfa's estimate, so they ain't cheap. Most of that is in the deadspace invulns of course.

[Scorpion Navy Issue, +GJ]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type EM Ward Field
Gistum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Crystal Alpha
Crystal Beta
Crystal Gamma
Crystal Delta
Crystal Epsilon
Crystal Omega
Zainou 'Deadeye' Missile Projection MP-706
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Management EM-806
Zainou 'Deadeye' Target Navigation Prediction TN-906
Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1006

4.7 Billion... that's slightly more than I paid for my faction-fit PvE Naglfar, which earns better ISK / hour than clearing gas sites, and is much harder to gank. A full crystal set would likewise be rather dangerous for my wallet to carry around in an environment where one can be ganked by people with bubbles.

I love doing rediculous Tengu Fits.
Your shield is going to yo-yo like crazy...no buffer, and the ASB reload will probably mean death, well not probably...certainly.
But hey it's a start for around 2 Bill.



[Tengu, Stupid Tank]
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

5x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile)

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400)
2x Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field
2x Cap Recharger II

4x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

2x Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I



[Statistics - Pilot]

Effective HP: 46,153 (Eve: 33,947)
Tank Ability: 2,340.79 DPS
Damage Profile - Omni-Damage (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 82.27%, Ex: 81.57%, Ki: 88.94%, Th: 92.63%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 68.13%, Th: 88.31%

Capacitor (Stable at 93.44%) (+93) (-8.37)

Volley Damage: 1,654.61 (Max Range 25,000)
DPS: 774.76

[Implants - Tengu Stupid Tank]

Slot 1: Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1
Slot 2: Empty
Slot 3: Empty
Slot 4: Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
Slot 5: Low-grade Crystal Epsilon
Slot 6: Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Systems Operation EO-605
Slot 7: Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Assault Missiles AM-705
Slot 8: Zainou 'Deadeye' Guided Missile Precision GP-805
Slot 9: Zainou 'Deadeye' Target Navigation Prediction TN-905
Slot 10: Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005




[Tengu, Goin' Full Retar]
Hi slots as above

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Cap Booster 400)
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
2x Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type EM Ward Field
Cap Recharger II

Low slots as above

Rigs as above

[Statistics - Pilot]

Effective HP: 46,153 (Eve: 33,947)
Tank Ability: 3,278.16 DPS
Damage Profile - Omni-Damage (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 82.27%, Ex: 81.57%, Ki: 88.94%, Th: 92.63%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 23.50%, Ki: 68.13%, Th: 88.31%

Capacitor (Stable at 92.41%) (+74) (-8)

Volley Damage: 1,654.61
DPS: 774.76

Yes, you can. Before Odyssey the tank was even better, but even now with the shield resist nerf its still enough for the application you want it for. Cheers..C:

True. But if you want to do it with two ships, this just isn't a problem with a cheap solution. If you want to keep the ISK / risk ratio within reason, then you're pretty much stuck with the Tengus I think.

Did you see the 72 GJ/s neut pressure in the OP? lol

Without the reps running, you're making net +55 GJ/s, with the cap booster, and that's only for as long as the charges last. Overheating won't save you either, since that only makes +68 GJ/s. And these numbers are giving you the benefit of the EO-606 / EM-806 implants that you did not mention in the fit.

Hope you don't plan on using those reps either. Cause if you turn one on, then your cap drops to +13.4 GJ/s, and with both on it is 28.6 GJ/s in the red (so you cap yourself out in < 4 minutes, without any neuts at all).

And your "awesome tank" stats are bullshit. Nominal omni tank is not even at 2,400 as stated, and the specific damage type stats are worse:

EM 1,674
Exp 3,349
Kin 2,791
Therm 2,093

Hybrid (50/50 Kin/Therm) 2,392
Lazor (50/50 EM/Therm) 1,861

So it can't tank two out of four damage types to the level specified in the OP, and it can't tank two of the most common mixed damage types to that level either. Even with heat it still can't tank EM/Therm to 2,400 DPS.

To be fair, two Large Energy Transfer Array IIs would solve the cap problem, with +87 GJ/s. Then your drones die, and you get to clear the room with the 337 (Rage) DPS from torpedoes alone. With a full load of Navy Cap Charges you will have exactly six minutes to get the job done.

But if you want a "cheap fit" that can't actually do anything that the OP asked for, then it's great.