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Spaceship Controllers from the Stone Age
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Hoo Yodaad
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-06-20 16:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoo Yodaad
Why do our ships overshoot so much when entering orbit (and many other maneuvers)? Common PID controllers can limit and often eliminate overshoot in our present day dynamic systems using minimal processing resources, so why can't our spaceships' super advanced systems limit overshoot for us? What is all that processing power being used for?
Anderson Footman
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-20 16:53:00 UTC
Hoo Yodaad wrote:
Why do our ships overshoot so much when entering orbit (and many other maneuvers)? Common PID controllers can limit and often eliminate overshoot in our present day dynamic systems using minimal processing resources, so why can't our spaceships' super advanced systems limit overshoot for us? What is all that processing power being used for?


Are you sure you're within optimal range? What kind of ships and guns are you referring to?
Adunh Slavy
#3 - 2013-06-20 16:58:20 UTC
Hoo Yodaad wrote:
Why do our ships overshoot so much when entering orbit (and many other maneuvers)? Common PID controllers can limit and often eliminate overshoot in our present day dynamic systems using minimal processing resources, so why can't our spaceships' super advanced systems limit overshoot for us? What is all that processing power being used for?



Because eve ships are forced to overcompensate for the fact that eve space has the viscosity of motor oil and CCP killed Newton.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#4 - 2013-06-20 16:58:39 UTC
I love when I warp to a gate and I'm all up in the gates grill. Or when I warp to an ACC gate and I keep getting stuck on it. State of the art space sim.

Still love eve though.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#5 - 2013-06-20 17:34:59 UTC
"I want less RL physics in my fluid universe space submarine game" thread#.......2?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-06-20 17:43:42 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
"I want less RL physics in my fluid universe space submarine game" thread#.......2?


No. He wants controls that aren't awful...

It's just another 'why do I have to fight with this horrible interface in order to do anything?' - Standard Eve thread, because the interface and controls for the game are bad and have always been bad. If you haven't noticed this then I don't know what to say brah.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#7 - 2013-06-20 17:52:03 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
State of the art space sim.

EvE is actually a submarine sim, but we're all a bunch of ADD children, so high command put a big picture of a galaxy in the back of the sub and said it was the viewport.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-06-20 18:31:37 UTC
This has nothing to do with physics.
The OP makes a valid point.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-20 18:36:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This has nothing to do with physics.
The OP makes a valid point.


Disagreed. It has everything to do with physics.

Dodixie > Hek
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-06-20 18:37:54 UTC
Hoo Yodaad wrote:
Why do our ships overshoot so much when entering orbit (and many other maneuvers)? Common PID controllers can limit and often eliminate overshoot in our present day dynamic systems using minimal processing resources, so why can't our spaceships' super advanced systems limit overshoot for us? What is all that processing power being used for?


The processing power is used by CCP to figure out cell phone technology so we can finally talk to agents in a station without docking....

Or it's a game, I forget which but definitely one of those.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-06-20 18:42:04 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This has nothing to do with physics.
The OP makes a valid point.


Disagreed. It has everything to do with physics.

No, it really doesn't. Or at least not physics in the real-world sense.
A controller can be made perfectly fine to work with EVE physics in the sense that he's talking about, because it's a dynamic system with input, output, and errors. There are physical rules that govern everything about how ships behave in EVE, and controllers can be made to work within these constraints.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-06-20 18:46:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
This has nothing to do with physics.
The OP makes a valid point.


Disagreed. It has everything to do with physics.

No, it really doesn't. Or at least not physics in the real-world sense.
A controller can be made perfectly fine to work with EVE physics in the sense that he's talking about, because it's a dynamic system with input, output, and errors. There are physical rules that govern everything about how ships behave in EVE, and controllers can be made to work within these constraints.


True, but overshootiing is good because (like bouncing a carrier off a station) it sometimes means pvp.

Somehow a game with rusty duck-taped ships using "projectile weapons" in the vacuum of space would feel right is crazy over-shooting type stuff didn't happen lol. Also, where can i find duct tape that strong? i've got an old Chevy in the back that could use some "minmataring"
Jimmy Morane
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-20 18:58:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hoo Yodaad wrote:
Why do our ships overshoot so much when entering orbit (and many other maneuvers)? Common PID controllers can limit and often eliminate overshoot in our present day dynamic systems using minimal processing resources, so why can't our spaceships' super advanced systems limit overshoot for us? What is all that processing power being used for?


The processing power is used by CCP to figure out cell phone technology so we can finally talk to agents in a station without docking....

Or it's a game, I forget which but definitely one of those.



You know you bring up a good point about the agents....I know there must be a reason in the game to have to meet the agent face to face at the station to accept a mission. But it is rather absurd to have to keep doing it. The initial mission - I can see that - maybe the agent wants to get a close look at you, interview whatever, but to constantly have to meet the agent over and over is amusing since we are supposed to be flying around in a super high tech world and we don't even have a cell phone or cell video screen or whatever the hell it is they will use in the future.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2013-06-20 19:00:42 UTC
Jimmy Morane wrote:


You know you bring up a good point about the agents....I know there must be a reason in the game to have to meet the agent face to face at the station to accept a mission. But it is rather absurd to have to keep doing it. The initial mission - I can see that - maybe the agent wants to get a close look at you, interview whatever, but to constantly have to meet the agent over and over is amusing since we are supposed to be flying around in a super high tech world and we don't even have a cell phone or cell video screen or whatever the hell it is they will use in the future.


Secure line so the pirates cannot listen in to both of you plotting their deaths?
Arcterus1
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-20 19:04:03 UTC
Rogers and Bell havent spread they're towers to Eve Colonys in time. damn gate exploded so the technology was lost... true story.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#16 - 2013-06-20 19:05:51 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Hoo Yodaad wrote:
Why do our ships overshoot so much when entering orbit (and many other maneuvers)? Common PID controllers can limit and often eliminate overshoot in our present day dynamic systems using minimal processing resources, so why can't our spaceships' super advanced systems limit overshoot for us? What is all that processing power being used for?



Because eve ships are forced to overcompensate for the fact that eve space has the viscosity of motor oil and CCP killed Newton.


This. It would appear there are no apples in either New Eden or CCP central in Iceland.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#17 - 2013-06-20 19:06:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jimmy Morane wrote:


You know you bring up a good point about the agents....I know there must be a reason in the game to have to meet the agent face to face at the station to accept a mission. But it is rather absurd to have to keep doing it. The initial mission - I can see that - maybe the agent wants to get a close look at you, interview whatever, but to constantly have to meet the agent over and over is amusing since we are supposed to be flying around in a super high tech world and we don't even have a cell phone or cell video screen or whatever the hell it is they will use in the future.


Secure line so the pirates cannot listen in to both of you plotting their deaths?




You'd think they'd stop stealing damsels then. Since the inevitable capsuleer is coming.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-06-20 19:18:44 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
You'd think they'd stop stealing damsels then. Since the inevitable capsuleer is coming.

The damsel is just bait. The capsuleer is the real catch.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-06-20 19:19:24 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jimmy Morane wrote:


You know you bring up a good point about the agents....I know there must be a reason in the game to have to meet the agent face to face at the station to accept a mission. But it is rather absurd to have to keep doing it. The initial mission - I can see that - maybe the agent wants to get a close look at you, interview whatever, but to constantly have to meet the agent over and over is amusing since we are supposed to be flying around in a super high tech world and we don't even have a cell phone or cell video screen or whatever the hell it is they will use in the future.


Secure line so the pirates cannot listen in to both of you plotting their deaths?




You'd think they'd stop stealing damsels then. Since the inevitable capsuleer is coming.

"Maybe it will be different this time."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2013-06-20 19:26:16 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

"Maybe it will be different this time."


"I'll get you next time Gadget"
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