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random hisec wardecs on small/new corps
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xiline anahata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-20 13:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: xiline anahata
Greetings,

The fact that this happened to me is irrelevant since we're trying to keep an objective perspective on this matter.
Being in a 10man corp and getting randomly wardec'd by bigger(corps or alliances, on average much larger than a small new player corp that doesnt really know ppl) is ok as far as i'm concerned ethically outside hisec space.
Now, ofc, why would you move with a bunch of newbies to low/null ? well you don't. You stay in hi.
However, the game mechanics allow for random entities to wardec in hisec basically giving 3 options:

  • miraculously develop pvp skills overnight (25hrs) which considering low-skills and low-isk of beginners isn't really an option
  • leaving player corp for npc newbie corps
  • developing remarcable hide-n-seek skills which means you either run away/doc/logout (for how long?) or move to another empire's space where the area is a bit clearer.


I know there are a lot of old pvp players that dont really care, and again, ethically why should they ? they're probably in nullsec anyway.
concerning the new players however, getting shot at and podkilled in hisec while mining in a venture doesn't sound so encouraging.

now from a realistic point of view:
Concord governs hisec security protocols, yes, so they mediate the wars between corps. But i fail to see the logic behind being able to just wardec away (in a policed environment) anyone without them being able to do anything about it.
Seriously it's like going to the police telling them you're about to beat the crap out of someone and they give you a 24hrs standby before they give the go.

In my opinion the wardecs in hisec should be mutual as in declaration, acknowledgement and confirmation. In case of denying to accept a wardec you should only know you got wartargets that will shoot u as soon as you leave hisec. (considering not everybody in lowsec blasts away)
how can this make a new player space friendlier ?
and how can this make griefers happy ?
not sure that both terms can be met, however this is a serious issue as the numbers of older chars increases and their skillpoints grow, and they prefer to pray on newbies.

Ultimately financially speaking i believe it's up to ccp to calculate how much griefers generate in monthly subs vs new players that just want to join a player corp since mostly it all goes down to money when it comes to profit.
doesn't it ?
Caerfinon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-20 14:45:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Caerfinon
"The strong do as they can and the weak suffer what they must". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melian_dialogue

Welcome to EVE. If you form a corporation in EVE you automatically consent to being a War Target. If you do not want to be a War Target, then don't form a corporation.

You can fight,
you can hide,
you can pay someone to fight for you,
you can pay ransom,
you can disband and form a new corporation not in a war,
you can just disband and not worry about the war.

But you formed a Corporation knowing that you could be the targets of a War.

Deal.

Cheers C.

@Caerfinon - Twitter
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#3 - 2013-06-20 15:06:19 UTC
Na, just have to HTFU or disband corp and stick in NPC corps until you learn to defend yourselves.

The good news is that high sec griefers are some of the worst pvper's in the game. So you have that going for you.

nom nom
Dan Carter Murray
#4 - 2013-06-20 15:31:18 UTC
if there are 10 of you just hop in wtfcheap talwars and try to alpha your foes from 60km and watch them call you a ****** in local. if you die you lost almost 0 isk and probably had a good luls. or make more alts and dual box so you can get 20 talwars. or make even more alts and use rookie ships to perma jam your foes while the talwars do the dirty work.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-20 15:44:16 UTC
EVE is a niche game. The sort of new player that would cancel their sub over a little war dec isn't going to stick around anyway. The issue has been posed as one of CCP profits many times but the argument just didn't hold water.
As for how to deal with this sort of thing, the game is at its heart a social one. You need to make friends who are willing to help. There are loads of players out there who are dieing for more targets. No pun intended. Put out a clarion call for free war targets. There are other small PvP corps who will answer.

Welcome to EVE. Good luck.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#6 - 2013-06-20 16:20:47 UTC
EVE is pvp game. if you do not like to pvp week or two then EVE is not your game.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#7 - 2013-06-20 16:42:58 UTC
Step 1. Disband your corp
Step 2. Join Faction Warfare
Step 3. Grind some LP for a day or two so you can afford a crapload of T1 frigs
Step 4. Go make internet spaceships go boom and learn how to PVP while having loads of fun.

JUSTK is recruiting
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#8 - 2013-06-21 01:57:35 UTC

  1. Kill
  2. Them
  3. All
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#9 - 2013-06-21 09:31:05 UTC
1) Don't form a corp if you can't manage the consequences.
2) Join an already established corporation who are more capable of dealing with it, and can help you along the way
3) Biomass

hope this helps m8
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-21 09:39:34 UTC
Look at it this way: a wardec is much like paying off the cops in real life to look the other way while you do some shady ****.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-06-21 11:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
OP fail at understanding eve.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
xiline anahata
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-06-21 11:28:54 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
if there are 10 of you just hop in wtfcheap talwars and try to alpha your foes from 60km and watch them call you a ****** in local. if you die you lost almost 0 isk and probably had a good luls. or make more alts and dual box so you can get 20 talwars. or make even more alts and use rookie ships to perma jam your foes while the talwars do the dirty work.


well that's .. a decent suggestion lol =)) thanks. tho some ppl are not so easily convinced, they're in it just for the pve since it's shiny graphics and awesome trailers you know
xiline anahata
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-21 11:31:16 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
OP fail at understanding eve.


thx m8. every opinion counts though you could of course grant me the courtesy of detailing yours, you didn't see me "omg wtf i been podded plx disable all hissecwarrs NAOEE!!!" did u ?
xiline anahata
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-21 11:34:03 UTC
Praxis Ginimic, Thanatos Marathon thanks for the suggestions.


you know the main problem with this explo corp was that people were usually on their own and the griefers of course, were not.
i will try to get a group together :))
Medude
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-21 11:35:27 UTC
An extension to what Dan said use this as an opportunity to develop PVP skills and lose the fear of getting popped. You never know they might turn out to be a right blood thirsty lot after popping their PVP cherry!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-06-21 14:26:17 UTC
xiline anahata wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
OP fail at understanding eve.


thx m8. every opinion counts though you could of course grant me the courtesy of detailing yours, you didn't see me "omg wtf i been podded plx disable all hissecwarrs NAOEE!!!" did u ?





asking for wars to be mutual is not undestanding eve.


That is not a WAR. Wars are unilateral agressions, anything besides that and woudl be stupid and serve no purpose.

This game is not for people that want to feel safe

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-06-21 20:09:07 UTC
1, look at the killboard of the ppl who wardec you to find out what kind of ships they fly.
2. fit Griffins with racial jammers and fleet up
3. harvest tears
Rabid Disconnection
Prism's Keepers
#18 - 2013-06-21 20:22:06 UTC
Listen to feedback from players, possibly contact previous targets of your aggressors, learn as much as you can.

Do not look at this as griefing, or as a detriment to your corp. This is a wonderful opportunity to learn some mechanics that will help you out in whatever you do. You will become a better player by experiencing a highsec wardec.
xiline anahata
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-06-21 21:13:47 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
xiline anahata wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
OP fail at understanding eve.


thx m8. every opinion counts though you could of course grant me the courtesy of detailing yours, you didn't see me "omg wtf i been podded plx disable all hissecwarrs NAOEE!!!" did u ?





asking for wars to be mutual is not undestanding eve.


That is not a WAR. Wars are unilateral agressions, anything besides that and woudl be stupid and serve no purpose.



you have a point, relative to most space, save hi-sec.
going a bit off topic but there is a logical discrepancy between wars being allowed in a place patrolled by peace-enforcing entities. just my 2cents
Quote:

This game is not for people that want to feel safe

again you keep presuming everybody thinks like you. while this practice is not uncommon, it is still questionable.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#20 - 2013-06-22 02:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
xiline anahata wrote:
there is a logical discrepancy between wars being allowed in a place patrolled by peace-enforcing entities. just my 2cents

Just FYI... CONCORD are most certainly not a "peace enforcer." They are "penalty enforcer."

If someone decides to gank your ship without a war-dec or aggro timers... CONCORD will only gank the offending ship. Nothing more or less. What happens to the victim (whether he/she survived) is not their concern.

War dec fees are "legal penalties/fees" to blow up your fellow peer... processed by CONCORD (if I recall correctly... the lore reason is "let them blow off some steam" and "corporate warfare is commonplace in the world of EVE").


Quite basically... the point of high-sec is not to be a "newbie zone" but rather a place where unwanted aggression comes at a price. One price is your ship, security status, and infamy (which can run quite steep)... the other price comes in the form of liquid ISK and time (as there is a 24 hour warning given when a War Dec is initiated). It can also be fled from by the recipient more easily.

xiline anahata wrote:
Quote:

This game is not for people that want to feel safe

again you keep presuming everybody thinks like you. while this practice is not uncommon, it is still questionable.

It is relative and contextual.

While you consider such actions against newbie corps objectionable, most of us don't. We've been through it ourselves and we understand how painful it can be (for the exact same reasons)... but honestly, it's nothing compared to what you face in the rest of the game. If you can't find a way to turn your current situation around then you'll have difficulty later on.

Then there is the fact that EVE is based around conflict (it's a dystopia)... be it consensual or otherwise. When you sell stuff on the market... you are in conflict with people who are also selling their stuff. When you mine asteroids/ice blocks or explore different data/relic sites... you are in conflict with others who also want to mine those same 'roids/ice blocks or get the data/relics. When you PvP... people don't want to blow up, they want YOU to blow up.



With all that said... I've give some useful advice.

Griffins and Maulus'... get everyone into those ships and load them up with their respective Electronic Warfare. Undock all at once and jam your enemies until they go away.
They cost "pennies" too. Less than 1 million ISK a pop.

You can also have fun with the situation. Get everyone into Atrons and fit them with blasters, scrams, webs, and a MWD. Go Leeroy Jenkins on the "squishiest" and most expensive piece of hardware the enemy has on field.
Destroyers fit for full gank can work in a pinch too!

Failing all of that... you could try actually talking with your aggressors and see what they want.
Pro-tips;

- be polite... no matter how abrasive or moronic they may seem. Chances are, they are trying to incite a reaction out of you.
- make some jokes... they tend to go over well.
- explain that you have no idea how to defend yourself (you're not lying here)... ask for advice on how you can better defend yourself against them (interesting fact; most will actually help/train you to fight better against them!).
- stand firm and don't pay ransoms... but see if you can arrange for another way to end the war-dec (ex. agree to have one big epic fight between "your guys" and "their guys"... and win or lose, the dec will drop).

How did you Veterans start?
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