Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This sounds like LOL's Irelia problem. The brutix is sort of in the same position as a melee adc in that game: if it has all the tools it needs to get close enough to do its job, it's too good, if it doesn't, it isn't good enough. Here's the problem with the rep bonus: it helps the brutix get into position to melt things only part of the time. That is when your incoming damage can be healed by the reppers. When you can't, then it is useless.

So yeah, maybe the brutix needs to lose the rep bonus for an AB/MWD bonus to speed/cap use/sig size.

I would really like to see the stats on the brutix and Mryms. Is it PVE that is driving up the numbers? Are they being used in PvP? how? buffer, shield, armor rep? What parts of space seems to see their predominant use? I hardly see any in Curse, but that is just one tiny area. Lots of prophs but no Mryms and now and then I see a Brutix used, but not much.

I have seen ZERO fleet concepts built around them. (other than high sec ganking, and that has nothing to do with the armor rep bonus) anyone else seen any?

To me the true measure is how they are being used in PvP. I hardly see them, but it might be the part of space I'm in where speed is king. And if you do go slow, you bring some logi. And if you bring logi, why bring active rep boats?

To me, cheap logi is so good now why do active repping other than baiting? With Gal armor rep boats you usually still have a hard time plugging the explosive hole, depending on fit. Triple rep Mrym? Easy day, shoot the explosive hole. Don't get me wrong, I like cheap logi, but its just another reason why active armor repping is a fairly poor choice given the other options.

the Ancillary ARs: Well, you know I find them to be still meh. I want to use them as widely as I use an ASB but frankly, just not in the same ball park. CCP was on target with the ASB's and they were perfect, they never should have been nerfed. We just need an armor equivalent and something that isn't depending on cap.


BRUTIX: Lose the Armor rep. It just doesn't work on a platform that MUST MWD around to get in range (burning cap), shoot guns that use cap, scram/web (using cap), and rep using cap. Its just well...stupid. At least the Mrym uses auto's and drones.

Give the Brutix the 4% armor resist bonus. And why not. You willy nilly gave the APOC a Gall tracking bonus and made it totally awesome. Do this for the Brutix and watch it get used. Plus it would be new and spicy!

If I use a Brutix it's still as a shield fit I'm afraid, but there's little incentive to use it. I haven't gone near a myrmidon for a very long time apart from trying fits/practise after the changes. Unless you're playing station games they still have precious little to offer for the rest of Eve's gameplay. Currently most of my time is spent in T1 cruisers (of all races, they're all so much fun :) ) or trying out the new battleships. How the frigate and cruiser balancing went so well and the BC balancing ended up so anaemic I just don't understand. Jury's still out on BS balancing, but it's looking better than BC so far.

I read this quite often. Only I cannot reproduce it in-game. How do you use your ASBs? In what kind of situations?

My experience: in solo / very small gang situations it just offers a tiny time frame of <30 secs. If the fight isn't over then I'm dead really quick. Not really useful when fighting slightly outnumbered. Fitting two ASBs helps to solve that but gimps the fit. In a gangs: buffer > ASB. So I guess a single ASB fit is only useful in pure 1-vs-1 or maybe 2-vs2 situations?

I had much more luck when using an AAR in solo fights. More sustained rep - twice as long as one ASB offers. Rep amount over this time is comparable. In addition the AAR is still useable even without nanite. This behavior fits perfectly to situation when fighting slightly outnumbered: in the beginning of the fight incoming damage is high...with time it becomes lower.

In short: the binary mechanic of the ASB is bad. It looks nice in EFT..but I never had much luck with them in-game. Maybe it's just me :P The AAR mechanic is much better and really nice on a Brutix or Myrm. But as said: I see it from a solo PvP perspective.

Ok, so some examples of uses, there are many more than this:

1) I used them much more before the nerf than now, as I mentioned. I thought they were perfect and really brought back small gang stuff, but even with the nerf I find I can use one on say: A chaser tackle Jaguar (it has shield extender + an ASB), thus it has the buffer to hold while ASB reloads, the boat is fast as hell (very little dps) but will go in and scram for rest of fleet, amazing survive-ability.
2) ASB Thrasher, well just fantastic.(one really nasty fit with a taboo armor plate and ASB combo that will absolutely solo any Sabre out there and really nice, always surprises the hell out of someone.
3) I used to use a dual ASB Mrym and it was great.
4) not bad on a stiletto to tank a bit of drone damage and so on for tacklers
5) Still great on Cyclone and Slepnirs

So usually, here is the thing, with an ASB I still have lows for damage and often as long as I can pound that dps in before I run out of charges its ok. Nor do I sacrifice a mid for a cap booster. Or I combine it with some kind of buffer for reload time. Or I use it on a kite fit, go in, blap a bit, pull range, relaod, dive in again....

The problem I have with the armor side is that I still have to use a mid slot cap booster to get my reps. And because of that, and combined with short range guns like blasters you then loose the ability to dictate range on many boats. I love the incursus, really do, and its great in say FW where you can guarantee a fight at zero but otherwise you can easily dictate range on it and kill it (once he burns through all his cap boosters.) But here is the deal, I don't see AAR's being used much on other armor boats. I see them used on the bonused boats but for instance I find on my Amarr stuff they just aren't as good. Now recently I'm trying them on a kiting Navy Omen, but already Amarr is fairly cap heavy and doing the Active Armor thing is very tricky manually piloting, managing targets, managing cap etc. So again....amarr and Gall eat through cap, and so does its repper. The ASB is nice because it doesn't, I keep doing what I need to do, oh and my guns and missiles never stop shooting. It just works really well.

So is the AAR complete garbage? no, as I said. But I still find it very... meh

yeahhhhh, what ever happened to shoot something with blasters and shoot something with drones?

Another option for brutix could be a new armor plate bonus. Maybe something like reduce the penalties of, or increase the armor amount added. Or maybe Web drone effectiveness? Though i guess that would only be good for small gang, solo pvp.

Whatever it is, please make it a non-cap using bonus.

To be fair, the differences between the brutix and the myrmidon are a bit more significant than you let on.... Myrmidon has 5 mids, allowing for dual cap booster with full tackle. This makes a Tripple rep setup viable which is honestly bad on the Brutix. With a dual rep setup the myrmidon has a spare mid allowing for another web, tracking disruptor, damp, ect ect.

Like I said, the difference between the two ships is a bit more than just Drones vs blasters. Try fitting out some viable pvp fits and you will see what i mean...

The differences are not significant at all. Both ships are flown as close range active rep ships. The only significant difference is the use of drones or blasters for primary damage. The extra slot position doesn't affect this, it just makes one stronger than the other in a given situation where that situation still involves being an up-close damage dealing active tanker.

As for viable fits, I have flown both ships in pvp for a very long time now and grown to use them less and less to the current situation where I almost never use them at all any more - they're simply inferior to a lot of other options outside of their supremely limited role.

Why pick a Brutix, fit with plates and rails for a poor result when you can change your Drake HM's for HAMs get double dps of rails, same +/-dps short range, a nice engagement envelope, dmg selectable, cap stable MWD'n all over the place when with Brutix you're burning as much cap boosters than ammo (not really but welp), and on top you can be faster with a Drake.

For pve I'm sure it got better, for pvp...gate camping? station undock games??

Actually you are right and I am bit wrong.

In 10 vs 10 engagement the active brutix will die within 15 seconds while maximal reasonably tanked passive brutix (links + hg slaves) will melt within 30 seconds.

I did calculate the breaking point properly this time. It seems that without slaves the breaking point is somewhere around 5 ships while with HG slaves it stays at 3 ships.

By breaking point I mean the number of ships each applying 500 dps from which the passive brutix will live longer than active brutix.