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Dev Blog: New system requirements for EVE

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Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2013-06-20 07:59:43 UTC
This is welcome news,

hopefully graphics updates are incoming :)
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#142 - 2013-06-20 08:23:14 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
LOL, my POS Acer laptop still meets the minimum requirements, but if I try to run more than 2 clients it crashes now, how will is be ok it the future?
These system requirements are written for 1 client, not 3 or more clients.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#143 - 2013-06-20 08:24:51 UTC
Movash wrote:
Well, I'm going to ignore the Windows 8 flamage because that's what I got. So, thanks for the support. Up to now, my client just doesn't work in full screen mode on Windows 8 so that's the first change I hope to see.
Can you send us a bug report with details, please. Dxdiag on your hardware and info on how it doesn't work in full screen.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Zorba
C C P
C C P Alliance
#144 - 2013-06-20 08:34:23 UTC
Molly Molou wrote:
With a GTX 560 that has 4 gig vram. Every other game is fine. But Eve, I need to lower resolution and play at low graphics settings, shadows turned off, no aa and so on. Still get 10fps when I come up against Eve's incredibly well coded green gas clouds. Frame rate halves when opening character sheet. Only get 30fps when warping about.

The problem is not my hardware. All other games are fine. It is Eve's crappy programming. I should not have to spend a thousand dollars on a video card because CCCP's incompetent devs can't code.


Our game doesn't perform as well as it should in general. Unfortunately EVE has lots of old content and code and it's difficult to make any large changes. We are working on some potential large improvements, but we're also developing better tools to monitor performance so we shouldn't find ourselves in a situation where we find death from a thousand performance cuts right before we release an expansion.

Much of this was a long overdue change so we can make this improvements from a known-good hardware configuration (as we said, we had trouble acquiring the old hardware...).

As for the gas clouds, please keep it up, many people here would love to remove them! Less features, unfortunately, result in faster games...

CCP Zorba | EVE Online Technical Director | @techartistsorg
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#145 - 2013-06-20 08:34:49 UTC
Jen Ann Tonique wrote:
The way I see it, if you run more than one account (multibox) you should be prepared to deal with the fact that your machine might not be up to the task of it even if it does meet minimum or recommended specs. If it does great, but it's not something you should come to expect IMHO.
These system requirements are written with 1 client in mind. Running 2 or more clients requires more resources or recognizing that you won't get the expected performance.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2013-06-20 08:36:20 UTC
CCP Zorba wrote:

As for the gas clouds, please keep it up, many people here would love to remove them! Less features, unfortunately, result in faster games...


How about fixing them instead of removing? What?Roll

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP Zorba
C C P
C C P Alliance
#147 - 2013-06-20 08:39:59 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
How about fixing them instead of removing? What?Roll

It would take a single programmer about 1 afternoon to remove them.
It would take a single programmer probably more than 6 months to fix them (replacement features like this generally have to be somewhat 'backwards compatible' in terms of content, which vastly increases the amount of work required).

CCP Zorba | EVE Online Technical Director | @techartistsorg
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2013-06-20 08:45:37 UTC
CCP Zorba wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
How about fixing them instead of removing? What?Roll

It would take a single programmer about 1 afternoon to remove them.
It would take a single programmer probably more than 6 months to fix them (replacement features like this generally have to be somewhat 'backwards compatible' in terms of content, which vastly increases the amount of work required).


You have other options... Don't make a backwards compatible new version, but remove the current clouds from the game and introduce new inspace 'terrain' that affects ships in or near it in several ways. (ship does not shop up on d-scan, buffs or nerfs to attributes, locktimes, etc... use your imagination)

And don't use 1 programmer, but a team. Look at it as an oppurtunity to enhance the universe and market it as a feature in the next expansion.

(yes I'm dreaming, I'm just not that fond of removing stuff without offering a replacement.)

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP Zorba
C C P
C C P Alliance
#149 - 2013-06-20 08:46:28 UTC
Celia Therone wrote:
It's hard to tell exactly what is going on. The eve client has suffered from massive footprint bloat in recent years so it is possible that you may be running into RAM problems. If that's the case then it's possible that some cheap ram could help you out quite a bit.

However it's more likely that Eve's processor bloat, for no tangible benefit, is the culprit.

Eve sound is a huge resource hog even when no sound is being played. You can try turning it off completely (disabling parts of the sounds system doesn't seem to have much effect), and that may help quite a bit.

...

Given the lack of quality out of CCP recently (launcher, downtimes, radials etc.), it's no surprise that they've chosen to raise requirements rather than work on better implementation.


Memory is always on my mind and something we've been campaigning aggressively to improve. We are experimenting with things internally to make big improvements. For sound in particular, there's some very low hanging fruit we'll be looking at this summer.

As for CPU performance, there is less low-hanging fruit here. The tangible benefit are the new features we add every 6 months. If you feel we're not developing the right features, that's a separate but totally valid discussion (don't make me regret mentioning it here please!).

In the end, one of the major goals for changing the min/rec spec is to give us a stable configuration from which we can improve our game whilst improving performance. We were so far in the hole with the older specs that it was basically impossible to set or evaluate realistic targets.

CCP Zorba | EVE Online Technical Director | @techartistsorg
BadBoy Explorer's
Freedom Elders OF Eve
#150 - 2013-06-20 09:17:56 UTC
hi there

just wondering would this new system requirements work fine with my below system spec

Intel® Xeon® Quad Core E3-1280V2 (3.6 GHz, 5.00 GT/s) cpu

ASUS® P8Z77 WS - ATX, USB 3.0, SATA 6 GB/s motherboard

32GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 (4 x 8GB KIT) memory

6GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX TITAN - 2 DVI, HDMI, DP graphices card

Genuine Windows 8 Professional 64 Bit

oh and dev when are you gonna start working on the walking around stationsUgh
Cicolluis Maponos
Niflheimr Inc.
#151 - 2013-06-20 09:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cicolluis Maponos
Since I'm running a pretty old rig here (Acer Aspire 8730G) that appears to be just borderline able to keep up with the new minimum specs:
will there (as was provided back with the SM3 changes) be another little tool available Soon™-ish that helps determining whether I should start scraping the loose change from boardwalks ASAP?
I'd hate to wake up some and be unable to do stuff because I played Risk and lost.... What?

*edit
BadBoy Explorer's wrote:
hi there

just wondering would this new system requirements work fine with my below system spec

Intel® Xeon® Quad Core E3-1280V2 (3.6 GHz, 5.00 GT/s) cpu

ASUS® P8Z77 WS - ATX, USB 3.0, SATA 6 GB/s motherboard

32GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 (4 x 8GB KIT) memory

6GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX TITAN - 2 DVI, HDMI, DP graphices card

Genuine Windows 8 Professional 64 Bit

oh and dev when are you gonna start working on the walking around stationsUgh


Showoff -_-"
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#152 - 2013-06-20 09:22:35 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
I don't study video cards, especially since I'm currently still using a Mac Pro for my EVE machine and have very limited options for changing it. I wish there was some sort of way of specifying cards other than by product names.

I are confused.


Do NOT buy Apple. Ripped off every time. Why would you want to pay double for old hardware?

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2013-06-20 10:11:14 UTC
Quote:
As for the gas clouds, please keep it up, many people here would love to remove them! Less features, unfortunately, result in faster games...


so, what exactly are you waiting for ? just do it
Udonor
Doomheim
#154 - 2013-06-20 11:08:11 UTC
Thanks Dude!

There ought to a be a ton of people between now and black Friday (Xmas specials) who are incredibly easy to gank due their outdated machines.

LOL! Even if you yourself use an outdated machine!
Plex Akuma
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-06-20 11:32:22 UTC
CCP Zorba

Would it be possible to just make a new client that has 64bit - DX11, HD textures along with tessellation? Just strip out the older code or optimize it? I saw in another another MMORPG that shall not be named have two separate clients.
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2013-06-20 11:34:42 UTC
CCP Zorba wrote:
Celia Therone wrote:
It's hard to tell exactly what is going on. The eve client has suffered from massive footprint bloat in recent years so it is possible that you may be running into RAM problems. If that's the case then it's possible that some cheap ram could help you out quite a bit.

However it's more likely that Eve's processor bloat, for no tangible benefit, is the culprit.

Eve sound is a huge resource hog even when no sound is being played. You can try turning it off completely (disabling parts of the sounds system doesn't seem to have much effect), and that may help quite a bit.

...

Given the lack of quality out of CCP recently (launcher, downtimes, radials etc.), it's no surprise that they've chosen to raise requirements rather than work on better implementation.


Memory is always on my mind and something we've been campaigning aggressively to improve. We are experimenting with things internally to make big improvements. For sound in particular, there's some very low hanging fruit we'll be looking at this summer.

As for CPU performance, there is less low-hanging fruit here. The tangible benefit are the new features we add every 6 months. If you feel we're not developing the right features, that's a separate but totally valid discussion (don't make me regret mentioning it here please!).

In the end, one of the major goals for changing the min/rec spec is to give us a stable configuration from which we can improve our game whilst improving performance. We were so far in the hole with the older specs that it was basically impossible to set or evaluate realistic targets.

I'd just like to say kudos for responding to what was a dickish post on my part. I've actually spent many years working on software maintenance of ancient code and I empathize deeply with the suckage of doing so.

As a customer though it's immensely frustrating when you are shooting red + usually at 100% zoom out and the performance drops markedly with a new expansion that seemingly offers changes completely unrelated to shooting red +. I was shooting red + some 5 years ago, they look like the same red + now and yet it seems like a third(?) new computer will soon be necessary to... have my vanishingly small dot of a ship shoot a stylized red +? I'm probably over-reacting but the shader model 3 thing forced me out of eve for eighteen months or so and that seemed mainly implemented for the captain's closet (the character creator is still a processor burden, that continues to be mind boggling...)

I was trying to loot Guristas Extravaganza and Angel Extravaganza last night and the achingly unresponsive overview felt like I was looting through molasses. It made my carpal tunnel flare up more nastily than it has in a long time. Why is it suddenly seemingly so much worse? The radial menu is my guess, but maybe it's network issues. Whatever it is, it's making the game much less fun.

Could you guys maybe get a UI review with the aim of reducing unnecessary mouse clicks? Things like the loot mechanics of the overview are very tedious. Double click, wiggle mouse for a second until you can double click again. Guessed wrong and you double clicked too soon? Go back and double click some more, wiggle the mouse to prevent the overview from updating so you can double click again on the next can. This is fighting the UI not using it. And don't even get me started on changing factory planets in PI, or invention - especially of fast research bpcs like ammo...
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-06-20 11:36:11 UTC
\0/
Keep the graphics up-to-date :)
...And open the goddamn door Lol

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Mr Waras
Myth Team
#158 - 2013-06-20 11:38:45 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
I don't study video cards, especially since I'm currently still using a Mac Pro for my EVE machine and have very limited options for changing it. I wish there was some sort of way of specifying cards other than by product names.

I are confused.

same

but I use windows xp :o
I don't understand what kind of graphics card is AMD X2600? (I can't find it in my local shop)
can you at least specify what AMD series should use, for example: HD5xxx, HD6xxx, HD7xxx
right now I use AMD 6550D, which is HD6 series, I have very limited options changing it
as for graphics I run at minimum textures to be able to play smoothly
CCP Vertex
C C P
C C P Alliance
#159 - 2013-06-20 12:24:12 UTC
Mr Waras wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
I don't study video cards, especially since I'm currently still using a Mac Pro for my EVE machine and have very limited options for changing it. I wish there was some sort of way of specifying cards other than by product names.

I are confused.

same

but I use windows xp :o
I don't understand what kind of graphics card is AMD X2600? (I can't find it in my local shop)
can you at least specify what AMD series should use, for example: HD5xxx, HD6xxx, HD7xxx
right now I use AMD 6550D, which is HD6 series, I have very limited options changing it
as for graphics I run at minimum textures to be able to play smoothly



The 'series' would be the X2000 but we only support from the 2600 model and up, it was released in 2007 and hasn’t been sold commercial for some time which is why you cannot find it in your local hardware store.

The AMD 6550D will work with EVE the same way it does right now but the chipsets fillrate and bandwidth capabilities mean you are doing the right thing by running on minimum settings.

**CCP Vertex  |  Senior Development Manager ** | @CCP_Vertex
Phext
SIGBUS
#160 - 2013-06-20 12:27:34 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Grukni wrote:
Will CCP ever support Linux again?
We have no Linux plans at the moment.


Will we ever see a native OSX Client?

:wq!