EVE General Discussion

Nah, you must Caldari Navy all the Tengu slots if you want to save the Damsel and leave untouched like a true hero. Zor wil pay for this, oh yes.

Yes that is true...

If you have links and your head is plugged in with 3 - 4 Billion isk worth of Implants.

And a Double Plated HAM legion can get over 600dps.

The T3 rebalance shouldn't be until after the T2 rebalance has been done; it's meaningless to compare T3s to HACs and Recons before the T2 cruiser rebalance has been completed.

I personally will be very intensively engaged on this, because any slip up in T3 balancing will have extremely severe repercussions (eg: the economy of W-space), and I think it's fair to say that quite a few of the other CSMs are going to be heavily involved on this subject too.

The summary of my current position on T3s is:

(1) We shouldn't let the hate for T3 link boosters overshadow the other things T3s can do. T3 ships need to be effective to justify the cost and risk of using them, and they need to be effective in a wide enough range of roles that they are popular or W-space is screwed.

(2) Rebalance Command Ships, HACs & Recons first, so we have a valid field of ships to compare them to.

(3) It's OK for T3s to be a better platform than a given T2 ship, as long as it can't exceed the T2 ship in it's specialized role. So it's OK for a Loki to do more DPS and have more EHP than a Vagabond, but it shouldn't be nearly as fast or small as a Vaga, for instance, because speed and evasion are the Vaga's T2 speciality.

(4) Give subsystems a calibration cost, and have them share a common pool of calibration with rigs. This allows us to assign an opportunity cost to picking the "cookie cutter" OP combinations: if you want a 1k DPS tengu that can trivially tank the toughest L4s, then you don't get to have 3x T2 missile rigs as well. In the other hand, careful choice of less-used subs will allow rig combinations that other ships can't attain.

This bears repeating. I do hope the devs share similar views.

Train for everything, fly the month flavor and the current OP stuff, forget about the rest.

They're not too powerful for T3 cruisers, there's only bad players unable to deal with them, unable to use EFT/Pyfa, unable to train their characters correctly, who want things handed to them accordingly to their will, this should remind you something.

T3's will require a very good thinking when we get at the rebalanced point of those, not because of carebear tears but because of logic and well thinking.
Someone this week talked about the initial Eve programmers/developers, how much those were "aliens" and had visionary ideas for this game, then you start reading nerf threads and buff threads all over the years and you understand so much better why races and specifics or tools to help them achieve their task are nerf&thrown down the toilets for many years, maybe they don't have the talent the vision or will to make it so.

We're far from those "alliens" talent, reading your guys hate and tears just makes me think how bad comments and threads like this one nerf Gallente deeper then the ground for years. That's the result you get with no talented people touching masters work to stick to some community part or personal opinion but care less about basics, the intended purpose of each thing, the cause to effect.

ATM frigs/cruisers T1 are pretty much correct, not perfectly balanced but correct, BC's armor rep bonus on 2 Gallente hulls is still the proof of bad decisions and thinking, not willing to take decisions or not listen to players, and god dammit Gallente thread was probably the one with greater number of posts pages and with least to no trolling.

HM's are totally harmless and actually worthless, this has been discussed in hundreds of posts the nerf was way too big and will stay like for years until another one watches HAM's on his screen and messes with like HM's just because he can.


All this wall of text to say, when you touch something you should do it considering all aspects of the game including modules fitting possibilities, the purpose, the point and why, not because a bunch of nerds with a huge loud mouth said so.

Having now had a bit more experience with different T3 fits I'd say they are *fairly* even.
I used to think the Tengu was by far the best, followed by the Prot. But when you look beyond paper dps and tank you realise that the Loki and Legion are definitely up there. Bar a few subsystems that are fairly even they're in a pretty good place against each other.

However T3s can absolutely not be rebalanced without HACs and Command Ships in particular being rebalanced first.

pft what kind of chump would take a job like that?

Or consider making T3s unriggable. I've always though rigs on Tech3s don't make sense because rigs are a semi-permenant feature on what's supposed to be a "flexible" ship. The combination of rigs and subsystems is imo just too much.

I really hope they dont nerf the EHP... I mean for a ship that costs over 1billion isk with fit, requires all those skills and has risk when flown.... a nerf to EHP would really make it like a even tastier target... and would be less attractive to fly

Making them more squishy by lowering the EHP is the Dumbest Idea ever.