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SWG NGE similarities
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Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-09-08 14:02:16 UTC
Someone mentioned that this whole affair of Incarna have striking similarities to Star Wars Galaxies NGE. How it was done and the purposes of it. What was planned and how it all failed.

It was haunting me all along and I decided to do some research to see if there really is any similarities.

SWG NGE closing down December 2011 behind the scenes

My research took a few hours of reading but above link sums it all up with all the necessary links to developers explanations, apologies and regrets for what was done.

What stroke me is not similarities. Is exact same one to one steps done by CCP with Incarna as it was done by SoE when NGE was released. CCP employees at first banned people on forums and in game. Attempted to put names and accuse of things. Call players "vocal minority". Kept and continue to keep silence about most of player base concerns and release "patches" that does not patch what players want to be fixed, instead adding useless for current player base things. Promise things but no intention to implement these seen anywhere.

What SoE want to reach with their NGE is to change the player base. They knew these 200 000 that played the game back then will go and hope that they will be replaced with a lot more others. SoE SWG NGE team leader admitted that was the plan. It didn't happen. And SWG closing this year. After 5 years of marketing attempts to bring back old and acquire new players. All failed and Sony Entertainment (SoE) swore never to change games in live but instead release new games if need be.

Research it all yourself if you want. It's not similarities. It's exactly the same things that CCP does with Incarna following steps done by SoE to Star Wars Galaxies with release of NGE "update". A game that is widely acknowledged most groundbreaking failure in history of MMO industry and shuts down December 15 2011.

Don't let them fly safe!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2011-09-08 14:06:09 UTC
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#3 - 2011-09-08 14:08:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.



While its not exactly the same it does have similarities.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Myxx
The Scope
#4 - 2011-09-08 14:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
my god... I think I wrote something similar once.

baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.


The drastic mechanics changes aren't like it, but how CCP is handling this is... basically lifted from how SOE handled it.
Sader Rykane
Midnight Sentinels
#5 - 2011-09-08 14:12:03 UTC
Sader Rykane wrote:
You're wrong.

Key reasons:

1) No one wanted the NGE.

2) People Wanted Incarna

3) The NGE FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED THE GAME.

4) Eve Onlines core gameplay is exactly the same as it was before Incarna

5) Incarna came out unfinished and useless because it was apparently rushed out with zero relevant features just because CCP loves shiny useless ****.

6) If Incarna had been given some damn game play value people would have actually liked it.

7) CCP somehow failed what could have been there most POPULAR expansion that god only knows how many people were waiting for.




Sader Rykane wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:
Myxx wrote:
A bunch of people really did want incarna. We just didn't want the NEX store.


A bunch of people really did want more action in SWG. They just didn't want the NGE .

It's not the point Myxx. Take a look at the OP and linked information. Then remember what was going on in here for last 3 month. Oh that includes "shiny new forums". SoE did that too. :-)


Huh? "More action?"

What are you talking about, there was plenty of Action Pre NGE.

The NGE changed game mechanics, it was nearly a completly different game. It didn't add "more action".


Incarna changed the hanger, but the core gameplay of eve is exactly the same.

Your analogy makes no sense.



Since you decided to cross post.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2011-09-08 14:13:24 UTC
Myxx wrote:
my god... I think I wrote something similar once.

baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.


The drastic mechanics changes aren't like it, but how CCP is handling this is... basically lifted from how SOE handled it.

CCP arn't doing mass bans. The people that did get bans did silly thinks like telling a dev to go die in a fire using his real name.

I got a 2 month ban for making a thread on the economic problems the removal of decay would bring from SOEStraight
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-09-08 14:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.



While its not exactly the same it does have similarities.


They are both online computer games that falls under the category 'MMORPG'?

Seriously, of course there are similarities, but not among the items that made the NGE one big piece of manure... I mean, failure.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#8 - 2011-09-08 14:19:05 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.



While its not exactly the same it does have similarities.


They are both online computer games that falls under the category 'MMORPG'?

Seriously, of course there are similarities, but not among the items that made the NGE one big piece of manure... I mean, failure.



If you want to do broad comparisons yes. However look at the comparisons on why SWG made NGE the way they did and compare it to Incarna and CCPs recent attitude and development focus.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Sader Rykane
Midnight Sentinels
#9 - 2011-09-08 14:21:28 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.



While its not exactly the same it does have similarities.


They are both online computer games that falls under the category 'MMORPG'?

Seriously, of course there are similarities, but not among the items that made the NGE one big piece of manure... I mean, failure.



If you want to do broad comparisons yes. However look at the comparisons on why SWG made NGE the way they did and compare it to Incarna and CCPs recent attitude and development focus.


In that case this thread should be how CCP is on the ROAD to a NGE disaster, but they haven't actually committed the fatal mistake yet.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2011-09-08 14:22:40 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:



If you want to do broad comparisons yes. However look at the comparisons on why SWG made NGE the way they did and compare it to Incarna and CCPs recent attitude and development focus.



CCP have wanted to do Incarna from day one.
Myxx
The Scope
#11 - 2011-09-08 14:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
oh hey, finally found it again...

John Smedley, CEO of SOE, circa 2005/2006 wrote:
The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.

At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and **** people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.

Smed



Jowen Datloran wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.



While its not exactly the same it does have similarities.


They are both online computer games that falls under the category 'MMORPG'?

Seriously, of course there are similarities, but not among the items that made the NGE one big piece of manure... I mean, failure.



Actually, no...
CCP is ignoring its playerbase in the face of our ire about the NEX Store and other stuff.
SOE ignored the SWG playerbase in the face of its ire about the NGE

CCP is trying to push the NEX store hard.
SOE tried to push the NGE hard

CCP introduced the NEX store to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase
SOE introduced the NGE to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase

Hilmar tried to positively spin the NEX Store (leaked email much?)
John Smedley posted the above quote and others, trying to positively spin the NGE

I could go on... maybe I will at some point if people want to see it.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#12 - 2011-09-08 14:26:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I went through the NGE and I have to say Incarna is NOTHING like the NGE.


^^^^^

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2011-09-08 14:41:05 UTC
Myxx wrote:



Actually, no...
CCP is ignoring its playerbase in the face of our ire about the NEX Store and other stuff.
SOE ignored the SWG playerbase in the face of its ire about the NGE

CCP is trying to push the NEX store hard.
SOE tried to push the NGE hard

CCP introduced the NEX store to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase
SOE introduced the NGE to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase

Hilmar tried to positively spin the NEX Store (leaked email much?)
John Smedley posted the above quote and others, trying to positively spin the NGE

I could go on... maybe I will at some point if people want to see it.



There is nothing wrong with the NEX store and I am quite in favor of it, as are most people. The vast bulk of players who kinked off were worried about pay to win items which CCP have said are not going to happen. CCP are not forcing anything onto us like SOE did. You dont have to use the NEX store if you dont want to.
Myxx
The Scope
#14 - 2011-09-08 14:46:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Myxx wrote:



Actually, no...
CCP is ignoring its playerbase in the face of our ire about the NEX Store and other stuff.
SOE ignored the SWG playerbase in the face of its ire about the NGE

CCP is trying to push the NEX store hard.
SOE tried to push the NGE hard

CCP introduced the NEX store to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase
SOE introduced the NGE to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase

Hilmar tried to positively spin the NEX Store (leaked email much?)
John Smedley posted the above quote and others, trying to positively spin the NGE

I could go on... maybe I will at some point if people want to see it.



There is nothing wrong with the NEX store and I am quite in favor of it, as are most people. The vast bulk of players who kinked off were worried about pay to win items which CCP have said are not going to happen. CCP are not forcing anything onto us like SOE did. You dont have to use the NEX store if you dont want to.


Click here if you want to read some profanity regarding why exactly microtransactions are done, and the flawed game design behind them being forced from a business perspective.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#15 - 2011-09-08 14:47:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:



If you want to do broad comparisons yes. However look at the comparisons on why SWG made NGE the way they did and compare it to Incarna and CCPs recent attitude and development focus.



CCP have wanted to do Incarna from day one.



Your still not seeing the similarities. The main reason CCP has done Incarna(in its current form) and the NeX store is because CCP is trying to shift Eve so it appeals to other audiences. This was a similar mentality that NGE was based off of and stripped down different features so they would crack into the "WoW" crowd.

As a poster a couple replies above corrected me. CCP has not made an a actual NGE mistake yet however they going down the road to one. Only time will tell if Eve suffers the same fate as SWG.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2011-09-08 14:47:34 UTC
I suspect that CCP will be quite happy if Eve limps on (while providing income) for another five years and then closes.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-09-08 14:47:59 UTC
Myxx wrote:

Actually, no...
CCP is ignoring its playerbase in the face of our ire about the NEX Store and other stuff.
SOE ignored the SWG playerbase in the face of its ire about the NGE

CCP is trying to push the NEX store hard.
SOE tried to push the NGE hard

CCP introduced the NEX store to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase
SOE introduced the NGE to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase

Hilmar tried to positively spin the NEX Store (leaked email much?)
John Smedley posted the above quote and others, trying to positively spin the NGE

I could go on... maybe I will at some point if people want to see it.


Any game company should ignore whatever the minority on the forums demand. What people say and what they do is very inconsistent.

Also, of course they should push/promote their products. It is only if the quality is bad that there is a problem. Otherwise it will be a huge marketing success.

The NEX store is NOT "to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase". People are complaining about prices and the lack of focus on FiS, but the store itself is a feature you can completly ignore as it has no impact on any other game mechanic. And if you want to spend your PLEX/ISK on accessories for your avatar, it works.

There is no dramatically game change with Incarna; all new features have been additional to existing content with the Hangar View as the only real piece of old game mechanic broken. No ship classes have suddenly disappeared, no change to how skill training works or how things explode and disappear for good when you shoot at them have been brought about.

Yes, there is maybe a problem with how CCP allocates their resources and the quality of what they release, but they have yet to redo all of the core mechanics of the game in one stroke like SOE did.

An EVE NGE would be to turn the it into Star Trek Online and we are (thankfully) still very far from there.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Myxx
The Scope
#18 - 2011-09-08 14:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Myxx wrote:

Actually, no...
CCP is ignoring its playerbase in the face of our ire about the NEX Store and other stuff.
SOE ignored the SWG playerbase in the face of its ire about the NGE

CCP is trying to push the NEX store hard.
SOE tried to push the NGE hard

CCP introduced the NEX store to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase
SOE introduced the NGE to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase

Hilmar tried to positively spin the NEX Store (leaked email much?)
John Smedley posted the above quote and others, trying to positively spin the NGE

I could go on... maybe I will at some point if people want to see it.


Any game company should ignore whatever the minority on the forums demand. What people say and what they do is very inconsistent.

Also, of course they should push/promote their products. It is only if the quality is bad that there is a problem. Otherwise it will be a huge marketing success.

The NEX store is NOT "to the overwhelming dissatisfaction of its playerbase". People are complaining about prices and the lack of focus on FiS, but the store itself is a feature you can completly ignore as it has no impact on any other game mechanic. And if you want to spend your PLEX/ISK on accessories for your avatar, it works.


First off, to point one: That was the mentality SOE had with SWG. Look at where its at right now.
To point two: Granted.
Point three: You want to argue that the sample that T'amber took was wrong?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2011-09-08 14:59:10 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Your still not seeing the similarities. The main reason CCP has done Incarna(in its current form) and the NeX store is because CCP is trying to shift Eve so it appeals to other audiences. This was a similar mentality that NGE was based off of and stripped down different features so they would crack into the "WoW" crowd.

As a poster a couple replies above corrected me. CCP has not made an a actual NGE mistake yet however they going down the road to one. Only time will tell if Eve suffers the same fate as SWG.



Im not seeing it because its not there. The space game is still here and unchanged where as in SWG the game was gutted for a WoW clone. There was no road to the NGE because they dumped it on us with 2 weeks warning just after a large expansion (that we all payed for and didnt get a refund)

This is most likely why when CCP messes up or brings out something I dont use I just don't get phased by it. My outrage bar is set so high I am immune to rage over such small mattersStraight
Myxx
The Scope
#20 - 2011-09-08 15:00:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:


Your still not seeing the similarities. The main reason CCP has done Incarna(in its current form) and the NeX store is because CCP is trying to shift Eve so it appeals to other audiences. This was a similar mentality that NGE was based off of and stripped down different features so they would crack into the "WoW" crowd.

As a poster a couple replies above corrected me. CCP has not made an a actual NGE mistake yet however they going down the road to one. Only time will tell if Eve suffers the same fate as SWG.



Im not seeing it because its not there. The space game is still here and unchanged where as in SWG the game was gutted for a WoW clone. There was no road to the NGE because they dumped it on us with 2 weeks warning just after a large expansion (that we all payed for and didnt get a refund)

This is most likely why when CCP messes up or brings out something I dont use I just don't get phased by it. My outrage bar is set so high I am immune to rage over such small mattersStraight



ONCE AGAIN: It isnt in the game details. Its in how its being handled by CCP and the playerbase's reaction.
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