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incursions are slowly killing off LP store profits

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Jinn Rho
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2011-11-06 03:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinn Rho
Spineker wrote:
Need to stop Incursion respawn or be fair to the rest of the players in the game.


2/10 for blatent disregard for all the facts presented to you throughout this thread, which obviously wasn't read...
(I gave you +1 for thinking the word fair exists in EVE...)
Spineker
#202 - 2011-11-06 03:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
Ahh someone is speaking out about the ISK Waterfall and what? You are not correct you just love that isk waterfall. If it dosen't get a nerf than CCP are fools.


Fair is important when Devs make it unfair. Of course I was around for BOB blueprint fairness so I doubt it is exist at CCP
LacLongQuan
Doomheim
#203 - 2011-11-06 04:19:42 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Incursions are a broken ISK flood of biblical proportions.
......................... Also, the risk they take is insane compared to "oh noes my logi disconnected, i might die if he doesn't log back in immediately AND if the other 2 logi's ALSO disconnect!" (this is in no way a comment on game stability, btw).


+1 for your post, just about everything broken about incursion
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#204 - 2011-11-06 04:27:25 UTC
mingetek wrote:
JackStraw56 wrote:
Cypher Decypher wrote:
There are certain Incursion-focussed players (read: FC's) who individually own 6-9 BILLION UNSPENT Concord LP

That is quite literally impossible. I think you mean million, not billion.



lets see...

360k lp will make you 1b isk..so they would need no more than 4.5m lp after exchange to make that easily.
You said 6-9 billion unspent LP, nothing about isk. That is IMPOSSIBLE. No one can have amassed that many LP since the start of incursions, not even running 24 hours a day and completing sites faster than any other fleet.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#205 - 2011-11-06 07:09:58 UTC
JackStraw56 wrote:
mingetek wrote:
JackStraw56 wrote:
Cypher Decypher wrote:
There are certain Incursion-focussed players (read: FC's) who individually own 6-9 BILLION UNSPENT Concord LP

That is quite literally impossible. I think you mean million, not billion.



lets see...

360k lp will make you 1b isk..so they would need no more than 4.5m lp after exchange to make that easily.
You said 6-9 billion unspent LP, nothing about isk. That is IMPOSSIBLE. No one can have amassed that many LP since the start of incursions, not even running 24 hours a day and completing sites faster than any other fleet.





tbh i think he means 6-9b isk in unspent concord lp 
..
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#206 - 2011-11-06 12:03:05 UTC
mingetek wrote:
JackStraw56 wrote:
mingetek wrote:
JackStraw56 wrote:
Cypher Decypher wrote:
There are certain Incursion-focussed players (read: FC's) who individually own 6-9 BILLION UNSPENT Concord LP

That is quite literally impossible. I think you mean million, not billion.



lets see...

360k lp will make you 1b isk..so they would need no more than 4.5m lp after exchange to make that easily.
You said 6-9 billion unspent LP, nothing about isk. That is IMPOSSIBLE. No one can have amassed that many LP since the start of incursions, not even running 24 hours a day and completing sites faster than any other fleet.





tbh i think he means 6-9b isk in unspent concord lp


Which than again is not much, as they are farming them since nearly a year, farming a year level 4s would do the same.

Remove insurance.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#207 - 2011-11-06 12:16:28 UTC
tenris most weeks i can make 100k lp a day.. if i push it I can easily do 800k+ a week, which boils down to 2b isk a week plus excess tag sales plus bounties..

and thats high sec. if i bothered with low sec I would easily double that again and each 360k lp = 1b isk profit.


but then again i try not to flood the market with my sales.
..
Jinn Rho
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2011-11-06 20:11:28 UTC
mingetek wrote:
tenris most weeks i can make 100k lp a day.. if i push it I can easily do 800k+ a week, which boils down to 2b isk a week plus excess tag sales plus bounties..

and thats high sec. if i bothered with low sec I would easily double that again and each 360k lp = 1b isk profit.


but then again i try not to flood the market with my sales.


Again, conversely interesting, if one were to flood the market, faction mod prices would drop. [Supply/Demand]
Therefore, how can one claim the LP market is crashed when both faction mods via LP store and tag prices have risen?



Change the name of this thread to "Incursions are slowly raising LP store profits" and end this damn thing.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#209 - 2011-11-07 05:24:38 UTC
Jinn Rho wrote:
mingetek wrote:
tenris most weeks i can make 100k lp a day.. if i push it I can easily do 800k+ a week, which boils down to 2b isk a week plus excess tag sales plus bounties..

and thats high sec. if i bothered with low sec I would easily double that again and each 360k lp = 1b isk profit.


but then again i try not to flood the market with my sales.


Again, conversely interesting, if one were to flood the market, faction mod prices would drop. [Supply/Demand]
Therefore, how can one claim the LP market is crashed when both faction mods via LP store and tag prices have risen?



Change the name of this thread to "Incursions are slowly raising LP store profits" and end this damn thing.



i deal in soley one item I used to sell for 55m all day everyday. about a month ago the item i used to sell was at a all time low of around 43m isk. as more people buy tags the sell price climbs for the faction item so profit for them is marginal at best.

..
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#210 - 2011-11-07 05:59:48 UTC
mingetek wrote:
tbh i think he means 6-9b isk in unspent concord lp

Then he is very bad at communicating.

Quote:
Change the name of this thread to "Incursions are slowly raising LP store profits" and end this damn thing.

LP store profits are actually falling even though the sell price of LP store items has increased. Usually LP store profit would be determined as isk/LP, and that metric is definately going down. The problem is that tag prices are increasing so much that you need to buy too much isk worth of tags in order to cash in your LP.

There are actually items for which the price of all the tags exceeds the sell price of the final item. In this case you make negative isk/LP.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#211 - 2011-11-07 07:27:37 UTC
JackStraw56 wrote:


There are actually items for which the price of all the tags exceeds the sell price of the final item. In this case you make negative isk/LP.


My Items still raising to increase profit. Others don´t? Bad for them, that is the economy. Other stuff will be used, and other items will be bought from those tags, because they are not that expensive for nothing.

Anyway those items that give you now negative isk/lp did so before either, just now you do not even have to calculate opportunity costs into it to see it. In other words: You lost money 6 months before already on those items.

Remove insurance.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#212 - 2011-11-07 08:25:35 UTC
JackStraw56 wrote:
mingetek wrote:
tbh i think he means 6-9b isk in unspent concord lp

Then he is very bad at communicating.

Quote:
Change the name of this thread to "Incursions are slowly raising LP store profits" and end this damn thing.

LP store profits are actually falling even though the sell price of LP store items has increased. Usually LP store profit would be determined as isk/LP, and that metric is definately going down. The problem is that tag prices are increasing so much that you need to buy too much isk worth of tags in order to cash in your LP.

There are actually items for which the price of all the tags exceeds the sell price of the final item. In this case you make negative isk/LP.



maybe they should just do the following..

do anti faction missions. get the tags they need. sell off the tags they dont need. with the proceeds of said sale of tags they buy "any" outstanding tags required to cash in lp. on a good week they will have left over isk long before they start loosign isk on buying tags.
..
Spineker
#213 - 2011-11-07 17:30:55 UTC
You don't get that many faction missions. I sell the tags out of the few missions that I do get because they are worth far more with all this LP exchanging nonsense. If you want Caldari Navy LP then go earn it with that corp.

Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#214 - 2011-11-07 19:25:49 UTC
Spineker wrote:
You don't get that many faction missions. I sell the tags out of the few missions that I do get because they are worth far more with all this LP exchanging nonsense. If you want Caldari Navy LP then go earn it with that corp.



Why I ever should want Caldari Navy LP? That LP Store sucks!

Remove insurance.
Spineker
#215 - 2011-11-07 19:43:52 UTC
Sucks now yeah.

But I am afraid you didn't understand the point. Whatever corporation exchange should be ended right away. It is a stupid idea and CCP needs to fix it if you want LP then go earn it instead of exchanging practically free LP from Concord.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#216 - 2011-11-07 20:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: xVx dreadnaught
Spineker wrote:
You don't get that many faction missions. I sell the tags out of the few missions that I do get because they are worth far more with all this LP exchanging nonsense. If you want Caldari Navy LP then go earn it with that corp.




Right then, so when people are tallying up the isk/lp per hour rates they should remember and add in the pricing of tags.

Which I think should now tip the scale. Well done you crafty lvl 4 junkies.

The bonus of doing incursions for me is access to those sweet 6% implants... I don't care about faction mods. Because as indicated it's far too expensive for tags, also the conversion rate means I'm losing 1 in 5 LP earned. I'd much rather flip an implant and buy the module outright and still have change in my pocket.

Speaking of which. I have 3 mill Concord LP to sell. Asking for 2.5K per lp I'll pay the isk cost. If any one wants some BPC's/Implants from the Concord LP store.

But Spineker, it's ok... we all understand you're too anti-social to come do incursions with us. Either that or no one would take your Drake.

Someone should bring cheese and crackers, would go great with this WHINE!
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#217 - 2011-11-07 23:31:09 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Sucks now yeah.

But I am afraid you didn't understand the point. Whatever corporation exchange should be ended right away. It is a stupid idea and CCP needs to fix it if you want LP then go earn it instead of exchanging practically free LP from Concord.



And your point about this is? No one will either exchange his LP for caldari navy LP, because they still suck. They suck with and without incursions, they are not affected by incursions. And you keep trolling about it.

Remove insurance.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#218 - 2011-11-08 09:50:06 UTC
Tenris Anis wrote:
Spineker wrote:
Sucks now yeah.

But I am afraid you didn't understand the point. Whatever corporation exchange should be ended right away. It is a stupid idea and CCP needs to fix it if you want LP then go earn it instead of exchanging practically free LP from Concord.



And your point about this is? No one will either exchange his LP for caldari navy LP, because they still suck. They suck with and without incursions, they are not affected by incursions. And you keep trolling about it.



See I think Spineker does Caldari missions, he may be a little butt hurt that Incursion folks like myself can take our LP anywhere and he's stuck with the sucky Caldari LP store.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#219 - 2011-11-08 09:52:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramatheia
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Spineker wrote:
CCP Dropbear wrote:
Cearain wrote:
We would actually need some numbers to determine if this is the case.


As far as I know we're still looking into gathering some numbers (meaning a request was filed with our awesome Research and Statistics crew, and I should follow it up!). The plan wasn't to look at LP though, but at the larger picture of overall mission and incursion completion rates. One goal behind Incursion was to get people out of their solo PvE mission runner mindset and into a group, dealing with more PvP-like scenarios (logistics, for one). Ideally, Incursions should compete with missions for income, mostly because they teach a player so much more than standalone missions ever can, and draw them into PvP much more effectively.

Tl;dr moral of the story is that the popularity and consequent economic impact of Incursions, if they're at the same time really moving people out of missions, is probably ultimately a better system than missions as the sole and primary income stream.



Stop trying to force my mindset in any direction has CCP not learned yet? I see at least 15k less players online after the last year or so of "get people out of thier mindset".

What part of open ended game has not made sense to CCP devs yet? I don't want you pushing me in any direction and if you think you will by nerfing missions or some other aspect of "mindset control" well I have played since beta but really the force thing is really pissing me off and rather tired of it. You try to create incentive but use a bat on other players to force them down a road you think should be fun. I don't group at all in Eve and most likely will not anytime soon outside of a Corp.

+1

I'm sure the intentions are honourable, but nobody likes to be told how to play a game. The game is marketed as a sandbox on the FAQ page:

"You can trade to make a living, conduct mining operations, market your fighting skills as a mercenary, camp the spacelanes for profit as a pirate, conduct espionage and infiltration, focus on research and manufacturing, or perform increasingly profitable missions for NPC (non player controlled, run by the EVE system) agents. What you choose to do day by day is up to you. You can play alone, form a corporation (equivalent of clan or guild) with a close group of friends or seek entrance to any of the large player run corporations and alliances..."

If CCP's masterplan really is is to turn everyone into a pew pewer, then perhaps it should say that on the box? There's no point sucking in new players with false advertising and then trying to sell them something else in-game.



Just wondering where that hazy vague border between ccp devs being unable to tell people how to play, and players being allowed to tell others how to play lies here.

the whole point of this thread is to say that incursion runners should get less because of the activity they have become proficient at. I guess i'll just say ship to ship pvp should be deleted cause theres lots of ppl who are better than me at it too.

the much used figure of 100m per hour is probably right, for those blitz fleets who knock off a site in 5 minutes but about 1 in 5 or less fleets are of the blitz fleet type, most take around 9-11 minutes and with 11 ships in fleet (vg's) get i think 10.5m per site. thats looking more like 50-60m per hour. Vastly different to 100m - dont forget for each site cleared then a fleet must relocate to the next before they can earn more money
xVx dreadnaught
modro
Northern Coalition.
#220 - 2011-11-08 10:10:11 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Spineker wrote:
CCP Dropbear wrote:
Cearain wrote:
We would actually need some numbers to determine if this is the case.


As far as I know we're still looking into gathering some numbers (meaning a request was filed with our awesome Research and Statistics crew, and I should follow it up!). The plan wasn't to look at LP though, but at the larger picture of overall mission and incursion completion rates. One goal behind Incursion was to get people out of their solo PvE mission runner mindset and into a group, dealing with more PvP-like scenarios (logistics, for one). Ideally, Incursions should compete with missions for income, mostly because they teach a player so much more than standalone missions ever can, and draw them into PvP much more effectively.

Tl;dr moral of the story is that the popularity and consequent economic impact of Incursions, if they're at the same time really moving people out of missions, is probably ultimately a better system than missions as the sole and primary income stream.



Stop trying to force my mindset in any direction has CCP not learned yet? I see at least 15k less players online after the last year or so of "get people out of thier mindset".

What part of open ended game has not made sense to CCP devs yet? I don't want you pushing me in any direction and if you think you will by nerfing missions or some other aspect of "mindset control" well I have played since beta but really the force thing is really pissing me off and rather tired of it. You try to create incentive but use a bat on other players to force them down a road you think should be fun. I don't group at all in Eve and most likely will not anytime soon outside of a Corp.

+1

I'm sure the intentions are honourable, but nobody likes to be told how to play a game. The game is marketed as a sandbox on the FAQ page:

"You can trade to make a living, conduct mining operations, market your fighting skills as a mercenary, camp the spacelanes for profit as a pirate, conduct espionage and infiltration, focus on research and manufacturing, or perform increasingly profitable missions for NPC (non player controlled, run by the EVE system) agents. What you choose to do day by day is up to you. You can play alone, form a corporation (equivalent of clan or guild) with a close group of friends or seek entrance to any of the large player run corporations and alliances..."

If CCP's masterplan really is is to turn everyone into a pew pewer, then perhaps it should say that on the box? There's no point sucking in new players with false advertising and then trying to sell them something else in-game.



Just wondering where that hazy vague border between ccp devs being unable to tell people how to play, and players being allowed to tell others how to play lies here.

the whole point of this thread is to say that incursion runners should get less because of the activity they have become proficient at. I guess i'll just say ship to ship pvp should be deleted cause theres lots of ppl who are better than me at it too.

the much used figure of 100m per hour is probably right, for those blitz fleets who knock off a site in 5 minutes but about 1 in 5 or less fleets are of the blitz fleet type, most take around 9-11 minutes and with 11 ships in fleet (vg's) get i think 10.5m per site. thats looking more like 50-60m per hour. Vastly different to 100m - dont forget for each site cleared then a fleet must relocate to the next before they can earn more money


11 pilot fleet get 9.7 mill each. the 10.5 is only if your fleet is 10 members or lower.

Other than that I agree with this message.