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Changing AF MWD to bonus to AB bonus
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Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-06-19 07:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
God's Apples wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
Dumb idea. Leave my mwd bonus alone.

And dont even think about ******* with the proposed HAC mwd bonus either!

Also:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
they need some changes in any case. T1 frigs better option in so many cases.


Youre dumb. Not a single t1 frig is better than the t2 version of it. Rifter > wolf or jag? No. Punisher > Vengeance or Retribution? lol, no. Merlin > Hawk or Harpy? lol nope again. Incursus > Enyo or Ishkur? Youre an idiot if you think so.

Yes, I know there are other frigs, but this is an assault frig thread, so why digress?


Because their roles have been overlapped.

I never compared the AF with their t1 counterparts, you were just putting words in my mouth.

I mean that the extra training and money needed for AFs are not justified by the return we get over regular t1 frigates.

Better option does not mean overall better in performance, it means that you can get an incursus to do pretty much what an enyo can and merlins aren't that different from hawks (unless you make some weird sniping hawk fit).

Slashers actually do a wolf's job but better. An incursus will beat an enyo in a straight up 1vs1 fight.


You just contradicted yourself really badly. You say he's putting words in your mouth saying t1 frigs are better than AF's, say that AF's are better than their t1 hull, then finish saying that actually no he was right not putting words in your mouth and t1 are actually better. Merlin does the same thing as a hawk (wut). Slasher does the wolf's job better is just false because I don't see a slasher doing 300 dps and the wolf's primary role is a high dps brawler/arty boat. An incursus can only beat an enyo 1 v 1 if the incursus has legion links with a dual rep fit and the enyo has an MWD so it can't control range. Without links an enyo will smash an incursus' face in.


I meant harpy and I dont really understand your point about words being put in my mouth.

The guy was comparing the AFs with their T1 hulls but I was talking about T1 frigates as a whole.

If you want a close range brawler that does 300 DPS there's a thrasher for that, cheaper and about the same durability and can actually fit a web.

Art of Explosions
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#22 - 2013-06-19 08:06:52 UTC
Saladinae wrote:

Also, although cost should not be the sole balancing factor, you cannot ignore cost completely when balancing. Why? Because if you make a ship 90% as effective as another ship, which also happens to cost 90% less, no one will fly the more expensive ship.
.


I'm not sure if this is a troll but I am going to pretend its not.

Have you seen most the DS/Faction mods in eve? Take say tracking computers, T2 is like a mill, Faction is about $300mil so thats 3000% cost in crease for about 5-10% performance increase. Same goes with a huge number of the widely used Mods and for the most part cheap DS/Faction mods are only cost effective if the supply is huge and the demand is very low (See small remote reps ect, Webs however are very worth while for the cost).

Also "better" is a very broad term, its best to specify how other wise you end up getting flamed. (IE More cost effective, greater performance ect)
Saladinae
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-06-19 08:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Saladinae
Andrew Indy wrote:
Saladinae wrote:

Also, although cost should not be the sole balancing factor, you cannot ignore cost completely when balancing. Why? Because if you make a ship 90% as effective as another ship, which also happens to cost 90% less, no one will fly the more expensive ship.
.


I'm not sure if this is a troll but I am going to pretend its not.

Have you seen most the DS/Faction mods in eve? Take say tracking computers, T2 is like a mill, Faction is about $300mil so thats 3000% cost in crease for about 5-10% performance increase. Same goes with a huge number of the widely used Mods and for the most part cheap DS/Faction mods are only cost effective if the supply is huge and the demand is very low (See small remote reps ect, Webs however are very worth while for the cost).

Also "better" is a very broad term, its best to specify how other wise you end up getting flamed. (IE More cost effective, greater performance ect)


Good job partial quoting. Troll. I clearly expressed a logarithmic relationship.

Also, you're talking about modules, which can be attached to ANY hull, thus the free market determines their worth, depending on the reward.

This discussion is about Hulls, that are either so bad, that the market can't fix it (like Eagles and some other HACS), or in this case, AF's, which the market cannot DEVALUE below a certain point in order to increase the demand. When the market itself cannot effect the supply/demand of a hull or any other item, then that item needs to be rebalanced.

Winmatar > Everything else
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