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Loot - Relic sites VS Data sites value
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Luko Melis
Dominion Guild
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#1 - 2013-06-17 15:38:54 UTC
Anyone else feeling that Data Sites loot is much lower value than Relic?

Even in easy Relic sites you can get 100mil / site easily, Power Circuits, Intact Shield Emitters and some others, they drop in quantities of 10 or even more from single can and they are each worth few milions / piece.

While in Data Sites, all you can get is few or single datacore/decryptors which are almost in mostg cases worthless...

Seriosly, someone who did balance those 2 types of sites must have been drunk.
Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-06-17 15:43:24 UTC
Luko Melis wrote:
Anyone else feeling that Data Sites loot is much lower value than Relic?

Even in easy Relic sites you can get 100mil / site easily, Power Circuits, Intact Shield Emitters and some others, they drop in quantities of 10 or even more from single can and they are each worth few milions / piece.

While in Data Sites, all you can get is few or single datacore/decryptors which are almost in mostg cases worthless...

Seriosly, someone who did balance those 2 types of sites must have been drunk.



Right after expansion data sites were more stable income than relic sites. Now because decryptors drop only in parts cans it is very easy to get all the decryptors from the site, pretty much 0% miss chance.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#3 - 2013-06-17 16:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Agree. I don't run data sites anymore. Only cargo scan them for valuable bpc's or the odd optimized decryptor. Mostly it's a waste of time. Relic sites will follow soon, except for maybe Sansha with their intact armor plates.
I could hoard decryptors and hope the price goes up again but that can take a very long time. With the higher quantities of drops and 6x more ppl doing exploration ppl have farmed already what used to be a half years supply in these two weeks.
What's flooded into the market is just the tip of the iceberg. I bet lots of people sit on their stashes waiting for prices to recover.
Mardris Fol
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-17 17:21:48 UTC
I think this depends which space you are in.

In hi-sec the data sites are worth way more than relic sites.

You can be lucky to scrape a few 100k off a data site some times.

Low-sec is more mixed but I have a feeling the quantity and quality of the loot in relic sites does over take the data sites somewhat just down to this scaling.
VulpusFox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-18 07:26:31 UTC
It will all balance out. Everyone rushed to go try the new exploration features hyped by the release not to mention the notion of ultra rare faction bpc drops in them.

Eventually all the non-explorers playing around with it will get bored with the delayed income, work and such with them and go back to ratting and prices will rise again a bit.

It's just everyone is out trying something new. CCP will tweak it, players will get bored and eventually like incursions it will become a small niche again
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-06-18 14:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Voith
Mardris Fol wrote:
I think this depends which space you are in.

In hi-sec the data sites are worth way more than relic sites.

You can be lucky to scrape a few 100k off a data site some times.

Low-sec is more mixed but I have a feeling the quantity and quality of the loot in relic sites does over take the data sites somewhat just down to this scaling.

Not any more.

Decryptors have plummeted to 20% of their Pre-Exploration nerf values.

The Market is hypersaturated at this point and given the hording going on will likely never recover.

Right now sites are being run 6x more than pre-Odyssey (pre CCP) with double-triples drops per site.

This means that roughly 12-18x as many decryptors are flooding the market.

In other words in the ~3 weeks since Odyssey killed exploration there has been 36-54 weeks worth of decryptors drop.

If we assume that the pre-Nerf market was in equilibrium this means that for every week CCP refuses to unfuck the situation ~3 months worth of decyptors enter the market.

In 2 months time the decryptor market will have almost a 3 years of excess supply. In other words: If on August 1st CCP removed decryptors from dropping it would take 3 goddamn years just to burn through the supply that exists.

In all likely hood decyptors will never be a money making item again.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#7 - 2013-06-18 14:14:30 UTC
Voith wrote:

If we assume that the pre-Nerf market was in equilibrium this means that for every week CCP refuses to unfuck the situation ~3 months worth of decyptors enter the market.


Until the typical 1 month expansion subscription increase goes away there are no problems which need looking at.

Not today spaghetti.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#8 - 2013-06-18 14:52:18 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Until the typical 1 month expansion subscription increase goes away there are no problems which need looking at.


The horse has already bolted. Too late to shut the barn door.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-06-18 15:15:55 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Voith wrote:

If we assume that the pre-Nerf market was in equilibrium this means that for every week CCP refuses to unfuck the situation ~3 months worth of decyptors enter the market.


Until the typical 1 month expansion subscription increase goes away there are no problems which need looking at.

You missed the entire point of the post.

By the end of a month there will be 2-3 year supply of decryptors.

Surplus decryptors.

Look at the spike in volume on the Market charts. People are hording them. In a month or twos time there will not be any major consumer of decryptors who won't have purchased a year or twos supply.

The Market is dead.

CCP killed it.

Decryptors will be worth less than Reports or Carbon in a couple months.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#10 - 2013-06-18 15:28:28 UTC
Voith wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Voith wrote:

If we assume that the pre-Nerf market was in equilibrium this means that for every week CCP refuses to unfuck the situation ~3 months worth of decyptors enter the market.


Until the typical 1 month expansion subscription increase goes away there are no problems which need looking at.

You missed the entire point of the post.

By the end of a month there will be 2-3 year supply of decryptors.

Surplus decryptors.

Look at the spike in volume on the Market charts. People are hording them. In a month or twos time there will not be any major consumer of decryptors who won't have purchased a year or twos supply.

The Market is dead.

CCP killed it.

Decryptors will be worth less than Reports or Carbon in a couple months.


I grasped the entire point of the post and agreed with it.

My point was that you making a valid point in regards to the over saturation of all the exploration stuff is pointless because CCP will not even realize there is a problem until subscription numbers go down and by then it will be too late (as you so eloquently explained).

Not today spaghetti.
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#11 - 2013-06-18 17:50:38 UTC
Um, decryptors will start getting used more often as a result of the price drop. They were prior to this patch rare enough that they were largely ignored as a result except where they were absolutly needed, such as jump frieghters.

Now theat the prices are more favorable inventors will start looking more often to see if they make sense. THink of it this way when a Dycryptor costs 8 million and you make Assualt frigates that retail for 20 million, you might not look at them, but if the Dycryptor is 2 million, you at least run the numbers.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#12 - 2013-06-18 20:26:58 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
Um, decryptors will start getting used more often as a result of the price drop. They were prior to this patch rare enough that they were largely ignored as a result except where they were absolutly needed, such as jump frieghters.

Now theat the prices are more favorable inventors will start looking more often to see if they make sense. THink of it this way when a Dycryptor costs 8 million and you make Assualt frigates that retail for 20 million, you might not look at them, but if the Dycryptor is 2 million, you at least run the numbers.


That's nice for the people using them. Doesn't fix the crashed income for explorers tho. Data sites are pretty useless at this point. Perhaps if CCP would remove datacores from FW shops and reduced the volume(as in cargo space) of them and the building materials found in the sites could offset it a bit.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-06-18 21:11:13 UTC
Airto TLA wrote:
Um, decryptors will start getting used more often as a result of the price drop. They were prior to this patch rare enough that they were largely ignored as a result except where they were absolutly needed, such as jump frieghters.

Now theat the prices are more favorable inventors will start looking more often to see if they make sense. THink of it this way when a Dycryptor costs 8 million and you make Assualt frigates that retail for 20 million, you might not look at them, but if the decryptor is 2 million, you at least run the numbers.

Decryptors are a means, not an end.

The demand for T2 equipment drives decryptors, not some intrinsic value. Since the cost of decryptors is small compared to the cost of making a T2 item the overall price for T2 will not drop much. Certainly not enough to justify the 10x supply.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-06-18 21:15:08 UTC
And to think it first started with the nerf to R&D agents, then CCP gives them to Factional Warfare LP stores at a reduced price compared to Civilian outlets and reduced the amount dropped in the old Radar sites. Now CCP comes out with this BS excuse for an exploration expansion and in the process seeds way too many too quickly into the game, thus saturating the market.


It's all gone to hell in a handbasket now.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#15 - 2013-06-18 21:25:55 UTC
Voith wrote:
Airto TLA wrote:
Um, decryptors will start getting used more often as a result of the price drop. They were prior to this patch rare enough that they were largely ignored as a result except where they were absolutly needed, such as jump frieghters.

Now theat the prices are more favorable inventors will start looking more often to see if they make sense. THink of it this way when a Dycryptor costs 8 million and you make Assualt frigates that retail for 20 million, you might not look at them, but if the decryptor is 2 million, you at least run the numbers.

Decryptors are a means, not an end.

The demand for T2 equipment drives decryptors, not some intrinsic value. Since the cost of decryptors is small compared to the cost of making a T2 item the overall price for T2 will not drop much. Certainly not enough to justify the 10x supply.



Decryptors are part of a whole chain of in and out that make up a profit on an item, they impact a whole series of costs from cost of copy time in your POS to the cost of the material. In some cases Gallente Decryptors make sense in producing drones, that was never the case before, because there cost was to high and supply was to low to dependable for the volumes you build drones in.

You are thinking only in terms of T2 BS where the ratio of the end product to cost of Decryptor is very small, that is not true for modules, frigates and drones, where the whole BPC may produce 10-20 mil in revenue. THe spreadheets say they are getting tp a price where they make sense here and we will eat a ton of them if makes sense.
Blue Absinthe
Wardec U
#16 - 2013-06-21 10:05:37 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
And to think it first started with the nerf to R&D agents, then CCP gives them to Factional Warfare LP stores at a reduced price compared to Civilian outlets and reduced the amount dropped in the old Radar sites. Now CCP comes out with this BS excuse for an exploration expansion and in the process seeds way too many too quickly into the game, thus saturating the market.

It's all gone to hell in a handbasket now.

DMC



Any exploration related patch will make exploration more popular and so decrease the value of exploration loot. There's nothing CCP can do about that other than perhaps reduce the chances of loot dropping (imagine the whining on the forums then!)

Ultimately a reduction in ISK/hr will force people out and things will reach an equilibrium.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#17 - 2013-06-21 10:24:06 UTC
data sites are almost totally useless.

I scan cans and sometimes I hack for a ship interface BPC but 98% of all cans arent even worth touching.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-09-11 09:18:56 UTC
Totally going to necro this thread.

Found a low sec system with 6 sigs in it and no one around to bother me, found 5 worthless data sites in it.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-09-11 09:35:11 UTC
Until CCP adds more uses for the data/relic loot, that part of exploration is going to remain a low profit profession.

But in all honesty, doing relic/data sites is not a very risky profession, it should not be the main money maker for exploration. You are close to untouchable flying a covert ops in low-sec, and even in null with bubbling camps you can good chance of surviving.

If all you want to do is relic/data sites, you need get into a covert ops and to go to npc null. If you want to do exploration in high/low-sec, you need to do the combat sites that's where the isk is at.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.