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[OPURE] Inquiry on the Sanctity of Flesh
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2013-06-18 01:02:40 UTC
An investigation that takes the input of heretics such as Silas Vitalia seriously is something that PIE inc will not be associated with.

Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade

Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-06-18 02:57:29 UTC
Ah, for information's sake... If the soul passes from the body on the first death, then aren't we Capsuleers sort of honoured ancestors? Guiding and serving after we've passed on from the world in spirit?

And although there were thirty-four others in my Batch, we were not clones. Each of us is an individual and I can confirm that we developed individual traits, strengths, weaknesses, personalities and interests. Tubekin are NOT clones. Well... until they're cloned, anyway...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-06-18 04:03:31 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
An investigation that takes the input of heretics such as Silas Vitalia seriously is something that PIE inc will not be associated with.


Of course Brother Lok'ri is jealous; I understand matters of the flesh on levels he could only dream of.

And then feel guilty about.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Namara
Order of Purity
#24 - 2013-06-18 07:34:45 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
An investigation that takes the input of heretics such as Silas Vitalia seriously is something that PIE inc will not be associated with.


Of course Brother Lok'ri is jealous; I understand matters of the flesh on levels he could only dream of.

And then feel guilty about.


Please do not post such replies, mr. Lok'ri input is valued, and the thread is not meant for political or religious opponents to snipe at ach other.

About us: The Order of Purity's charter is education, indoctrination and arbitration. The Order of Purity strives to clarify and uphold Amarr traditions, strengthen capsuleer loyalty to the Empire and mediate in conflicts between loyalist capsuleers.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#25 - 2013-06-18 13:15:18 UTC
Namara wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Much Longer.


Scholar Vitalia, do you have any data about the length of the practice?


To my knowledge, the Sacred Flesh doctrine has been in place for many, many years. Cloning has been around for a long time as well; it is only the technological marriage of cloning with the capsule (or the implants used by the new breed of mercenaries) that is new.

Namara wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

In its current incarnation "Sacred Flesh" Only applies to Royals.


If this is the case, is there much of a stigma associated with non-Royals violating this tradition?

And does this mean that anyone somewhere in the line of succession of a Royal family should abide by the rule (which is still a significant amount of people)?


You may of course feel free to take my input with a shipment of salt as I am not from the Empire, but here's how I understand things:

In theory anyone at a level of nobility is somewhere in the 'line' to become an heir for the Family they serve. Of course it may be a very long line depending on proximity on the political and family trees, but that doesn't take them out of the line alone.

In practice, I think it is rather different. While some may stick to it out of tradition, it isn't necessary for practical reasons: the number of perfectly-timed deaths required to make it possible for just aren't likely - or feasible for a would-be assassin. I would expect that it is held to in, say, the first five to ten levels below the top for the line (which may include a couple hundred individuals), but beyond that it is a choice.

If I'm at or near the bottom of the ladder, the odds of me "missing out" on the opportunity are so low that the potential benefits for my family and their holdings would likely outweigh the loss of my spot in line.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Nicolas Merovech
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-06-18 16:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolas Merovech
Arkady Vachon wrote:
I can live with being a soulless clone, it's actually quite liberating.


"Soulless" isn't the word I would use; technically, we are bodiless. But you're right, it is liberating.

Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Ph. D, M.D.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#27 - 2013-06-19 03:55:07 UTC
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are still being written, and if God did not want us to have cloning technology then it simply wouldn't exist in the first place. The Theology Council will eventually have to deal with the changes that have happened since the Sacred Flesh was put into writing. I can't say which way they'll rule on the issue, but the fact still remains that they'll have to think about it in a new light before deciding.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-06-19 05:12:10 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
if God did not want us to have cloning technology then it simply wouldn't exist in the first place.


No.

For members of the Imperial Faith, many things exist in which god does not wish humanity to participate.

Back to Sunday school with you! A few more generations of elevating yourself above the current lowly station might do nicely.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#29 - 2013-06-19 05:32:00 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are still being written, and if God did not want us to have cloning technology then it simply wouldn't exist in the first place.


So, if clone tech is a gift from God, then what about, say, cybernetics?

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#30 - 2013-06-19 05:42:29 UTC
Human intellect and reason is a gift from God. Cloning and cybernetics are things humanity has done with that gift. One assumes scientific and technological advancement generally pleases God though how some people use it may displease Him.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Lailoken Emrys
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-06-22 11:18:31 UTC
The more and more I browse these networks, the more I realize that Amarrians and their culture are the single most abhorrent, disgusting things t have ever been contrived or conceived, in all of existence. It's my dearest hope that you all die, and that your clone vats cease to function. Eden would benefit from it.
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-06-22 13:00:08 UTC
Namara wrote:


2. If one cannot communicate with God when one becomes soulless if the sanctity of flesh is violated, can one notice this loss of communication?

3. You say that this ability to communicate thought one's soul is essential to those who might one day become Emperor. Is it not essential to other professions? Would you say one could be a priest without this ability? Is it possible to be a faithful without having this communication available?




My answer may be short as my time today is very limited.

The answer to the second question I can easy - yes. One notices it through experience. The answer though as to how one feels it, revolves around the way one asks another to describe the peace and love of being known by god and what it feels like, save you're asking the opposite. It is feelings and observations such as this which have led to the written words and the life and doctrines we follow today.

As "Living Capsuleers" we are - or have became - sacrifices to our Empire for we have placed our souls at risk, if not outright having already lost them, for the will of God and Empress. It's rather easy when you think about it. Many of us have already died. Our reasons for life though have not. This is the legacy you see talked about. It is a soldier of god who's 'last will' in space and time was to have a contiuance of themselves that would be capable of furthering their noble work.

How each Capsuleer handles the knowledge of who they are and what they have done (a rather weighty sentence if you add in everything!) is a relatively new and fresh issue, and tends to be sometime only privately shared and discussed in details. Every day we awaken the sun shines differently, as the saying goes, even if it is always the same sun.



"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
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