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Exploration seems to be a fail...... or am I missing something?

Author
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#1 - 2013-06-16 21:46:24 UTC
So I mission as primary fun, but have tried to test the waters of exploration a bit... here is my impression!!1

1) FINDING ALMOST NOTHING: With low skills you find nothing, so it gives you no incentive to keep training skills to actually find something. I did find little serp (3k ISK rats, like belt rats) and it took a while to get that site.

2) SCANNING is a PAIN: I get it, if it was easy, there would be little skill involved. With that understood, "they should have dozens of low end sites in each system" that are available to find for the new explorers. Of course these sites should have minimal value, but at least it's progress. Like a Security mission runner, LVL 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... the progress is motivating to continue.

3) PROGRESS to Better finds: Based on skills, etc... you can locate better finds.


Am I missing something, or is this a "Just skill up the Character and TRUST" kind of thing. That you will get the prize inside?

Comments?
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#2 - 2013-06-16 21:49:05 UTC
PS.... They should create Exploration Agents, that give out "Seek and Find" or "Treasure Hunt" Missions. At least that would be progress!
Nitocriss
Pulse Heavy Industries
#3 - 2013-06-16 21:50:04 UTC
Yes you are missing something
Rengerel en Distel
#4 - 2013-06-16 22:08:39 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
So I mission as primary fun, but have tried to test the waters of exploration a bit... here is my impression!!1

1) FINDING ALMOST NOTHING: With low skills you find nothing, so it gives you no incentive to keep training skills to actually find something. I did find little serp (3k ISK rats, like belt rats) and it took a while to get that site.

2) SCANNING is a PAIN: I get it, if it was easy, there would be little skill involved. With that understood, "they should have dozens of low end sites in each system" that are available to find for the new explorers. Of course these sites should have minimal value, but at least it's progress. Like a Security mission runner, LVL 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... the progress is motivating to continue.

3) PROGRESS to Better finds: Based on skills, etc... you can locate better finds.


Am I missing something, or is this a "Just skill up the Character and TRUST" kind of thing. That you will get the prize inside?

Comments?


1) With low skills, you can do the sites you don't even have to probe down. You're also not the only person looking for sites.
2) Scanning is so easy, if it's giving you that many problems, you're not going to want to find any harder sites.
3) PROGRESS means you can find the sites faster, beating others to it.

If you're in high sec, you're better off perhaps doing other things as a new player than exploring for combat sites. Of course, exploring for data and relic sites might pay better, takes fewer skills, and makes you comfortable making long trips to get things done.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Narwz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-16 22:09:39 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:


Comments?


No.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#6 - 2013-06-16 22:25:12 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:


2) SCANNING is a PAIN: I get it, if it was easy, there would be little skill involved. With that understood, "they should have dozens of low end sites in each system" that are available to find for the new explorers. Of course these sites should have minimal value, but at least it's progress. Like a Security mission runner, LVL 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... the progress is motivating to continue.



There was once a time where we had to place probes by putting the ship where we wanted the probes, the probes were not allowed to overlap, and they would take 10 minutes to cycle. Starting in a system I hadn't explored before, I had to spend about 20 minutes making bookmarks to place the probes, and then it would take an entirely unreliable length of time to hit the sig, usually an hour or more.

What we have now, is entirely reliable, tells you how many sigs are about in advance without even having to launch something and can be done with just the mouse hand whilst alt-tabbing between accounts without doing anymore than uncloaking the ship and pressing launch - if it was any easier it might as well be in the overview.

There is plenty of content, but you will find that highsec suffers from a sweeping action, where people repeatedly doing popular routes sweep content into unpopular corners, so that as the name exploration suggests, you will in fact have to go look for content.

It won't take you that long to find a system with 5 or 6 sigs in it, nor will it take very long to get level 4 skills.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#7 - 2013-06-16 23:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Saint
Tauranon, you have to be one of the most patient players on the planet..... there is no way, I would have ever played this game for that type of reward/content with that kind of effort.

Exploration as it is, compared to security mission running - is like watching "Discovery Channel" commercials.

I couldn't imagine risking any value of ship to go into low or null sec to Explore with the way it seems to work. Yes, I have no patience for poorly written stories or game play that is exceptionally boring.

done.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-06-16 23:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Pithum C-type Adaptive Invulnerability Field. (ie deadspace loot).

Whilst I don't personally do caldari highsec exploration, the reality is the skinnerbox moment of seeing the drop is 10x more fun than any point in the 10 hours of mission grinding that I would need to do to make equivalent isk.

I've averaged about 200mil including ope, bounties and loot from each serpentis hydroponics (ded 5) that I've done, and realistically there is something more satisfying about fetching isk with risk/reward attached, something that entirely lacks in missions. There is after all 14 battleships that must be killed and a web trap in that encounter (its not 'easier' than a mission even without other players). I haven't lost a spaceship to other players, and have at least 2 bil to show for recent lowsec exploration, so losing a spaceship now would be relatively meaningless (I bought my last 2 Ishtar hulls for 150mil a piece, they are fitted for sub 200mil).

there will be a point when you are over missions.
Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-17 00:48:36 UTC
del bah
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#10 - 2013-06-17 01:57:05 UTC
*facepalm*
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#11 - 2013-06-17 03:57:07 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Pithum C-type Adaptive Invulnerability Field. (ie deadspace loot).

Whilst I don't personally do caldari highsec exploration, the reality is the skinnerbox moment of seeing the drop is 10x more fun than any point in the 10 hours of mission grinding that I would need to do to make equivalent isk.

I've averaged about 200mil including ope, bounties and loot from each serpentis hydroponics (ded 5) that I've done, and realistically there is something more satisfying about fetching isk with risk/reward attached, something that entirely lacks in missions. There is after all 14 battleships that must be killed and a web trap in that encounter (its not 'easier' than a mission even without other players). I haven't lost a spaceship to other players, and have at least 2 bil to show for recent lowsec exploration, so losing a spaceship now would be relatively meaningless (I bought my last 2 Ishtar hulls for 150mil a piece, they are fitted for sub 200mil).

there will be a point when you are over missions.



I suppose this is exactly what I thought it would be like, only much less valued items similar to mission running as you progress.

For some players i suppose it can be fun, but I multi-box 2 to 4 toons when i mission and get an average of 6 or so missions done in an hour since they all have the same agent.. (200m Isk on average) It's not boring, since I try to change up the ship types, etc.... sort of like playing a different game of solitaire. I wouldn't run missions with a solo toon, as it would take so long it would be so very boring.

thanks for the response.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#12 - 2013-06-17 13:49:36 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Pithum C-type Adaptive Invulnerability Field. (ie deadspace loot).

Whilst I don't personally do caldari highsec exploration, the reality is the skinnerbox moment of seeing the drop is 10x more fun than any point in the 10 hours of mission grinding that I would need to do to make equivalent isk.

I've averaged about 200mil including ope, bounties and loot from each serpentis hydroponics (ded 5) that I've done, and realistically there is something more satisfying about fetching isk with risk/reward attached, something that entirely lacks in missions. There is after all 14 battleships that must be killed and a web trap in that encounter (its not 'easier' than a mission even without other players). I haven't lost a spaceship to other players, and have at least 2 bil to show for recent lowsec exploration, so losing a spaceship now would be relatively meaningless (I bought my last 2 Ishtar hulls for 150mil a piece, they are fitted for sub 200mil).

there will be a point when you are over missions.



I suppose this is exactly what I thought it would be like, only much less valued items similar to mission running as you progress.

For some players i suppose it can be fun, but I multi-box 2 to 4 toons when i mission and get an average of 6 or so missions done in an hour since they all have the same agent.. (200m Isk on average) It's not boring, since I try to change up the ship types, etc.... sort of like playing a different game of solitaire. I wouldn't run missions with a solo toon, as it would take so long it would be so very boring.

thanks for the response.


Keep running those missions then. Id say you are doing it wrong. You should explore in low or zerozero for more thrill. Yes missions give you more isk but all missions are same **** over and over and over and over and over again. At least exploring in zerozero things can get interesting.

I would ask for what do you need so much ISK that you are willing to sacrifice FUN for grind?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#13 - 2013-06-17 14:10:12 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:



I suppose this is exactly what I thought it would be like, only much less valued items similar to mission running as you progress.

For some players i suppose it can be fun, but I multi-box 2 to 4 toons when i mission and get an average of 6 or so missions done in an hour since they all have the same agent.. (200m Isk on average) It's not boring, since I try to change up the ship types, etc.... sort of like playing a different game of solitaire. I wouldn't run missions with a solo toon, as it would take so long it would be so very boring.

thanks for the response.


No to be honest, the caldari highsec ded 4 has a loot table that is pretty much as valuable as the serpentis ded 5s I do, and it only takes 10-15 minutes for sensibly level 4 skilled cruiser pilot to beat. ie there isn't really a "progression" as such, because a pilot who would struggle with level 4s, can clean out a ded 4 in a navy cruiser relatively quickly.

ded 4 also has 0.1 sig strength, its twice as strong as a vigil, and 4 times as strong as the best highsec data and relic - its able to be pinned down by a novice scanner.

all the progression really isn't character based for highsec, its really about learning whats out there.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#14 - 2013-06-18 01:34:18 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:

Keep running those missions then. Id say you are doing it wrong. You should explore in low or zerozero for more thrill. Yes missions give you more isk but all missions are same **** over and over and over and over and over again. At least exploring in zerozero things can get interesting.

I would ask for what do you need so much ISK that you are willing to sacrifice FUN for grind?



It's not really boring or a grind yet.... as I said it's like playing a card game of sorts to me, and at this point I wouldn't want someone (another player) coming in my game and stealing or blowing up my deck just to be a jerk.... not my kind of fun really!
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2013-06-18 02:04:21 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Demica Diaz wrote:

Keep running those missions then. Id say you are doing it wrong. You should explore in low or zerozero for more thrill. Yes missions give you more isk but all missions are same **** over and over and over and over and over again. At least exploring in zerozero things can get interesting.

I would ask for what do you need so much ISK that you are willing to sacrifice FUN for grind?



It's not really boring or a grind yet.... as I said it's like playing a card game of sorts to me, and at this point I wouldn't want someone (another player) coming in my game and stealing or blowing up my deck just to be a jerk.... not my kind of fun really!


Exploration may not be for you then. Most of us who make it a semi-full time thing in game couldn't imagine going back to missions, but the risk is always there for someone to come along and **** in your soup.

Honestly, it seems less likely to happen in low sec (or at least seems that way to me). The likelihood of someone crashing your site goes way down when everyone has safeties off. But of course you do run the risk of *gasp* losing your ship to another player that way.
Landari Omega
Exit Wound Regional Security
#16 - 2013-06-18 05:06:48 UTC
Ok, ten bucks says you are trying to poke around in Hisec.

No. Stop it.

If you get a Covert Ops frig with some Sisters Launchers + Probes, you can nail all the expensive Data and Relic sites no problem. You just need the equipment and the ballsack to go into 0.0 to find them.

Almost all the stuff you find in Hisec is worthless with a few exceptions, but even then it would take you a while to make it really add up. I made 650m in a single night cracking open Relic and Data sites. You just need to know where to look. Lucky for you, I'll tell you!

NULLSEC


Oh, and here is a nifty little guide I still use for Exploration.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exploration_guide

And for probing, its incredibly easy once you get the hang of it. Once you know the proper technique, skill has nothing to do with it. Its mostly equipment if you ask me. Just YouTube probing guides. Back during Apocrypha finding a Wormhole was a miraculous achievement for me, but now I hate finding them because that means there isn't a Site there.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#17 - 2013-06-18 05:18:06 UTC
I enjoy the minigame once or twice per day. A single lowsec site with 6 cans to hack, makes me well and truly over it by the end of it and I rarely feel like cleaning out a system if there are 2 or 3 datas in it.

Can't imagine the OP who was already chafing at less combat in exploration compared to missions, would choose to go all the way to no internetspacesubmarine sinking at all.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#18 - 2013-06-18 05:32:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Saint
The more I look into things that seem interesting other than Missioning, trading, etc... it always seems to be in Null sec...... yet the Null sec folks seem to always complain about high sec getting all the goodies.... oh well!

Yet, the few times I've ventured in there to Low/Null with characters, EVERYONE was trying to kill me. If you see another player in local, you can bet they will hunt you down for sport........ So it seems just too much anger going on in there to be any fun, unless you find a nice group to gang with.....

So, I suppose you all are right as well am I.

Exploration is ONLY for the players willing to venture in areas that allow other players to engage in combat with you.

and yes, I've only tried probing in High Sec, and the one time I found a worm hole, I was killing some NPC's and a guy with his two buddies (or alts), warp/web me and "bwasted my wittle ship"... and I ended up in the hospital..

Peace
Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-06-18 06:55:13 UTC
Null space feels much more "peacefull" to me than low sec. Ofcourse, don't go snooping around in people's home system.

About high-sec, what's the point of going in WH's when you're exploring in high-sec because it's "safe"?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-06-18 09:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Most of us who make it a semi-full time thing in game couldn't imagine going back to missions, but the risk is always there for someone to come along and **** in your soup.

Honestly, it seems less likely to happen in low sec (or at least seems that way to me). The likelihood of someone crashing your site goes way down when everyone has safeties off.



Doing it in null while at war and this is what makes things interesting, but that's not the part I'm worried about or at least head scratching.

I've started by hating this can spew thing and still do but before I decide to definitively turn my back on this I'm trying rather hard but miss something for sure.
Scanning sites is not a problem for me just a matter of seconds, however I'm havin a real pain with this minigame and its getting me really angry, I'm missing awesome BPC's (some T2's...) and T2 salvage or BPC's for stuf and whatnot, selecting cans order is not really an issue even if I think those go far too fast and disapear also too fast, issue is the minigame really boring to hell to find always more nodes to crakck and getting only 10 to 15% of the global value, most cans just depop ...

My question is, is there some logic in this nodes clicking minigame or is it completely random? how to improve changes of succeed hacking?

Thx for your advices.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

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