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Dev Blog: Odyssey Ship Balancing

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#81 - 2013-06-14 18:32:13 UTC
Xxerana wrote:
Amarr Priest wrote:
I am sad as to what was done to the Navy Omen, was one of my favorite cruiser class pvp ships to brawl in when I was in the amarr militia. The ship had great tank and damage for its class. I could go 1 v 1 with even some HAC's and win.

Armor tanked and nano are two things that in my opinion don't mix well. Minmatar ships should still be able to catch it and now its damage is much less which gives you even less survivability. To me the risk is not worth the price of the ship anymore. I do hope CCP looks into how people are and if they are even using the ship to great effect over the next few months and make a decision on reverting which will probably never happen but that's my 2 cents...


This.

This ship took a pretty heavy hit. To say that it will "zip around the battlefield skirmishing with the best of them" with the "new damage bonus" is a bit of a stretch. This ship has lost ~100 DPS with the removal of the 5th turret and RoF bonus, compared to my old fitting, and what the "new"one shows. Paired with lower hitpoints and removal of the capacitor bonus, even though it is a bit faster and has some more drones, doesn't really compensate for the loss of the turret slot and previous bonuses.


For the kind of dps/buffer brawling gameplay that the old Navy Omen excelled at, I recommend giving the new Navy Augoror a try.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-06-14 18:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Xxerana wrote:
Amarr Priest wrote:
I am sad as to what was done to the Navy Omen, was one of my favorite cruiser class pvp ships to brawl in when I was in the amarr militia. The ship had great tank and damage for its class. I could go 1 v 1 with even some HAC's and win.

Armor tanked and nano are two things that in my opinion don't mix well. Minmatar ships should still be able to catch it and now its damage is much less which gives you even less survivability. To me the risk is not worth the price of the ship anymore. I do hope CCP looks into how people are and if they are even using the ship to great effect over the next few months and make a decision on reverting which will probably never happen but that's my 2 cents...


This.

This ship took a pretty heavy hit. To say that it will "zip around the battlefield skirmishing with the best of them" with the "new damage bonus" is a bit of a stretch. This ship has lost ~100 DPS with the removal of the 5th turret and RoF bonus, compared to my old fitting, and what the "new"one shows. Paired with lower hitpoints and removal of the capacitor bonus, even though it is a bit faster and has some more drones, doesn't really compensate for the loss of the turret slot and previous bonuses.


For the kind of dps/buffer brawling gameplay that the old Navy Omen excelled at, I recommend giving the new Navy Augoror a try.


Then put some overdrives on it instead of nano :P .. i think overdrives could do with a buff really although it does add 250 m/s to it.. mm...

Fozzie are pirate ships up next on July 18th isn't it the next patch?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#83 - 2013-06-14 20:41:30 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

Fozzie are pirate ships up next on July 18th isn't it the next patch?


expectations for pirate?

angel nerf

guritas loosing missile velocity bonus replaced with drone tracking and optimal range

blood raiders loosing turret bonus replaced with drone damage and hp bonus

sansha general boost fittings pg and agility

serpantis just a general boost (if that serpantis are good tbh)

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-06-14 21:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonas Sukarala
MeBiatch wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

Fozzie are pirate ships up next on July 18th isn't it the next patch?


expectations for pirate?

angel nerf

guritas loosing missile velocity bonus replaced with drone tracking and optimal range

blood raiders loosing turret bonus replaced with drone damage and hp bonus

sansha general boost fittings pg and agility

serpantis just a general boost (if that serpantis are good tbh)


Angel nerf ?
perhaps a falloff reduction to 7.5% and maybe a stronger shield focus -1 low +1 high .. they need more dps.

Guristas remove missile velocity for drone tracking or missile damage

Blood Raiders could use stronger drone abilities to help their dps but i would say no to any drone bonus here

Sansha need more slots and pretty much everything needs a buff

Serpentis just need mobility upgrades like the gallente have received like thorax - vigilant.

I would also suggest they reduce the web strength bonus on these ships 90% is too much... that and web strength should be reduced on the module itself.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#85 - 2013-06-14 22:55:07 UTC
I am curious and confused at the logic in the skill rebalance and was hoping someone could shed some light.

I was able to fly the Nidhoggur prior to Odyssey with all the green check marks. Checking the ship now, I see I am missing some skills. Knowing the comment "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" I petitioned to see what the issue was.

I was told in so many words that because I was able to fly those ships prior to the expansion I am still able to fly them, even though the game screen indicates I have not met the requirements.

I am curious why this route was taken, rather than simply giving me the skills required to fly the ships after Odyssey was released similar to how the Battle Cruiser skills were given to those that met the requirements.

This is annoying in that in conflicts with EFT and other API running programs that will gather character information and then say I can't fly a certain ship, when in reality I can because the game is simply bypassing the requirements.

How does this affect if I want to fly an Archon instead? As it stands the only skill difference are the racial ship skills, which I have, so Im just missing the carrier skill itself. Will I need to train the missing skills, or will it be the same as the Nidhoggur is now?
Galen Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#86 - 2013-06-16 18:38:57 UTC
You couldn't fly the Archon before the patch, so you will have to meet all the requirements to fly it now. you could fly the Nid before, so you can still fly it, even though you don't have all the prerequisites. The fact you can fly the Nid doesn't matter for the Archon. As far as why, I'll leave that to the devs.

http://eveboard.com/ub/1939472205-31.png
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-06-17 15:28:48 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

Fozzie are pirate ships up next on July 18th isn't it the next patch?


expectations for pirate?

angel nerf

guritas loosing missile velocity bonus replaced with drone tracking and optimal range

blood raiders loosing turret bonus replaced with drone damage and hp bonus

sansha general boost fittings pg and agility

serpantis just a general boost (if that serpantis are good tbh)


Angel nerf ?
perhaps a falloff reduction to 7.5% and maybe a stronger shield focus -1 low +1 high .. they need more dps.

Guristas remove missile velocity for drone tracking or missile damage

Blood Raiders could use stronger drone abilities to help their dps but i would say no to any drone bonus here

Sansha need more slots and pretty much everything needs a buff

Serpentis just need mobility upgrades like the gallente have received like thorax - vigilant.

I would also suggest they reduce the web strength bonus on these ships 90% is too much... that and web strength should be reduced on the module itself.


I think the pirate BSs are ok on the whole:

Machariel seems OP at medium/long range, but actually if you are able to get in close it's defenceless. That seems balanced to me.

Vindicator is OP at close range, as it should be. Useless beyond 20km, as it should be.

Rattlesnake has an awesome tank and the ability to field multiple heavy neuts alongside huge drone damage.

Nightmare... hmm, never found a role for this really, but then it does have the ability to project 1000dps to 70km while sporting a couple of heavy neuts/smartbombs for defence against small ships.

Bhaalgorn... probably OP considering that it's only ever used as an anti-capital mega-neutathron. If anything it needs it neutralisation bonus nerfed a bit and a bit more dps bonus - so people actually start to use it as intended, with mixed lasers and neuts.

My 2c



Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-06-17 16:31:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Xxerana wrote:
Amarr Priest wrote:
I am sad as to what was done to the Navy Omen, was one of my favorite cruiser class pvp ships to brawl in when I was in the amarr militia. The ship had great tank and damage for its class. I could go 1 v 1 with even some HAC's and win.

Armor tanked and nano are two things that in my opinion don't mix well. Minmatar ships should still be able to catch it and now its damage is much less which gives you even less survivability. To me the risk is not worth the price of the ship anymore. I do hope CCP looks into how people are and if they are even using the ship to great effect over the next few months and make a decision on reverting which will probably never happen but that's my 2 cents...


This.

This ship took a pretty heavy hit. To say that it will "zip around the battlefield skirmishing with the best of them" with the "new damage bonus" is a bit of a stretch. This ship has lost ~100 DPS with the removal of the 5th turret and RoF bonus, compared to my old fitting, and what the "new"one shows. Paired with lower hitpoints and removal of the capacitor bonus, even though it is a bit faster and has some more drones, doesn't really compensate for the loss of the turret slot and previous bonuses.


For the kind of dps/buffer brawling gameplay that the old Navy Omen excelled at, I recommend giving the new Navy Augoror a try.


Thanks for responding Fozzie. You're right about the augoror.

Would you mind addressing the comments about the dominix?

In the end I found an old one lying around in a hangar in hisec and refitted it for long range drones vs sleepers.

It was pretty good at that, being just able to push 1000dps out to 70km with a reasonable shield buffer. This was achieved with 2 omnis, 4 drone damage mods, gardes, 5x425mm rails and some hybrid rigs.

But this really is all it's good at. To be honest, an immobile ship is no better off at 70km range to target than one at 50km range - it's still going to get its face pushed in during pvp because someone will just bounce and warp to it.

My view is that the dominix needs its old hybrid bonus back so it can brawl and be useful once smatbombs have killed all the drones. The drone tracking and range bonuses are un-necessary.

Perhaps the design team was concerned that it could do too much damage with drones and hybrid weaponry bonuses? But the truth is that in most engagements the drones are only alive at the beginning.

At the moment, the best brawling fit for the domi involves medium blasters (since their base damage output is very close to that of blaster cannons). Surely you did not intend that?

/MC

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Amarr Priest
Doomheim
#89 - 2013-06-25 03:16:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Xxerana wrote:
Amarr Priest wrote:
I am sad as to what was done to the Navy Omen, was one of my favorite cruiser class pvp ships to brawl in when I was in the amarr militia. The ship had great tank and damage for its class. I could go 1 v 1 with even some HAC's and win.

Armor tanked and nano are two things that in my opinion don't mix well. Minmatar ships should still be able to catch it and now its damage is much less which gives you even less survivability. To me the risk is not worth the price of the ship anymore. I do hope CCP looks into how people are and if they are even using the ship to great effect over the next few months and make a decision on reverting which will probably never happen but that's my 2 cents...


This.

This ship took a pretty heavy hit. To say that it will "zip around the battlefield skirmishing with the best of them" with the "new damage bonus" is a bit of a stretch. This ship has lost ~100 DPS with the removal of the 5th turret and RoF bonus, compared to my old fitting, and what the "new"one shows. Paired with lower hitpoints and removal of the capacitor bonus, even though it is a bit faster and has some more drones, doesn't really compensate for the loss of the turret slot and previous bonuses.


For the kind of dps/buffer brawling gameplay that the old Navy Omen excelled at, I recommend giving the new Navy Augoror a try.


I haven't really checked out the Augoror but I rather fly the more sexy Navy Omen, hehe.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-06-28 04:41:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
That's 107 ships either added or comprehensively rebalanced in the last year.

Let's see if we can beat that next year.



Let's make Frigate combat viable, again.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-06-28 04:41:43 UTC
<--- loves Frigates

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]