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Federation expresses dismay at Republic handling of Broteau

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-06-17 06:29:39 UTC
iyammarrok wrote:
We've had this discussion before Diana.

I am NOT Gallentean.
Your wilful blindness is going to be your end.

You will fight traitors and dissidents? You mean like the ones in the station you are defending? The ones declared as traitors by the rightful highest authority in the State?
You keep telling yourself that, Denial of the facts will not change the fact that your actions mark YOU as the traitor and dissident.

I will destroy all enemies of the State, Mr.iyammarrok, even if it will be my children, my clones or myself. Can you say the same about you?.. I guess not, gallentean.

ColonelNick wrote:
This only proves that the Matari are savages, incapable of understanding due process or exercising restraint. I don't even understand how they're even an empire really, they're more at war with themselves then they are with the Amarr.

Its sad.

But while these savages are killing gallentes, they can be used, right?

Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:
10 pages of whining about Coleile (again) in 3....2......1.....

Yes, how dare we be upset at being backstabbed. How dare we!

Now, how this was a backstabbing, eh?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Cyrus Alabel
Azure Wrath
#22 - 2013-06-17 07:31:37 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

I will destroy all enemies of the State, Mr.iyammarrok, even if it will be my children, my clones or myself.


So about that whole "CEP declares Heth a terrorist and enemy of the state" thing...
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-06-17 07:46:57 UTC
Cyrus Alabel wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

I will destroy all enemies of the State, Mr.iyammarrok, even if it will be my children, my clones or myself.


So about that whole "CEP declares Heth a terrorist and enemy of the state" thing...

I haven't heard they calling him "enemy" or him doing any crimes against the State. All I heard is CEP calling names, like "terrorist", those have negative meaning, at least for me, only in the sense of lack of professionalism.

Speaking about professionalism, I am afraid your aim is not so good, since you clicked on a wrong topic to discuss Heth-haan.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-06-17 07:53:37 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Speaking about professionalism, I am afraid your aim is not so good, since you clicked on a wrong topic to discuss Heth-haan.

That's never seemed to stop you before.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#25 - 2013-06-17 07:58:35 UTC
I can't help but think like, that all of this could have been avoided if Quafe had just taken my suggestion to appease the Republic by releasing new flavors...

Maybe they will release new flavors anyway? ♥

Better late than never, right~?

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!

Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-06-17 08:40:42 UTC
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg wrote:
I can't help but think like, that all of this could have been avoided if Quafe had just taken my suggestion to appease the Republic by releasing new flavors...

Maybe they will release new flavors anyway? ♥

Better late than never, right~?

Quafe Sabik - guaranteed to sate your bloodthirst! Now with more hemoglobin!

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?

Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-06-17 08:59:46 UTC
I'll state my thoughts succinctly... The moment the Federation handed Broteau over, he was a dead man. Even pretending to think otherwise is, at best, naive. Though I say 'good riddance' to the murderer of a Light of Matar... I can't help but wonder, where does all of this leave the Republic among the Empires in the end? When enough hands are bitten, there will be none reaching out in their hour of need, as would be the case with any of us acting on impulse in such grand scale.

It's not my question to answer, in the end, perhaps not even to ask, but I ask it regardless.

This is my opinion, nothing more, and whats to be will be.
Davanev Ice-Eyes
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-06-17 09:22:12 UTC
Anyone not anticipating this ending was an idiot.

Anyone who enabled it to happen and whines about it now is a hypocrite.

It seems the Federation Senate has no shortage of either.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-06-17 09:37:38 UTC
Davanev Ice-Eyes wrote:
Anyone who enabled [this outcome] to happen and whines about it now is a hypocrite.


Doubly so when you consider the fate of Anvent Eturrer. That one may purely have been Souro Foiritain's bit of public grandstanding, but I don't recall the Senate producing any such strong vocal dissent at the time.

Broteau got a fair trial in the Federation, and a swift and humane execution in the Republic. As Malaetu Shakor said, "To call [the Sebiestor] proceedings into question is to question the judiciary proceedings of the Federation as well." And to call the execution into question reflects an uncomfortable spotlight back in the Federation's own face.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Tamonash en Welle
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-06-17 11:02:55 UTC
Now, maybe it is because I come from a backwater planet in Solitude and do not understand the finer details of Federal law, but I do not understand the notion that the Sebiestor Tribal Court simply executed the verdict given by the Caille District Court. The verdict was 14 life sentences, what they executed was the death sentence. Maybe for some people, but in my understanding, those two a far from the same.

What was the point of the sentence of the Caille District Court if it was meant to never be followed? If the Caille District Court has the power to give the death sentence, they obviously did not believe the crime was strong enough. Alternatively, if they do not have that power, this whole story just shows how to circumvent such a restriction. Let us not forget, for all the bad things he did, Gerne Broteau was a citizen of the Federation.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-06-17 11:18:42 UTC
Fourteen life sentences sounds much like a death sentence to me. A needlessly long, slow one where the prisoner is a drain on public finances for several decades and takes up prison space that could be better used on an inmate who's capable of being rehabilitated.

Versus the cost of a wall, some bullets, a mop, the paperwork and the funeral.

If you're dictating that the prisoner should die in the legal custody of the judiciary system either way, I really don't see why waiting for them to die of natural causes after a lifetime's incarceration is preferable.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#32 - 2013-06-17 11:20:24 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

I will destroy all enemies of the State, Mr.iyammarrok, even if it will be my children, my clones or myself. Can you say the same about you?.. I guess not, gallentean.


As I will never be an enemy of Intaki, No, I cannot say that I would destroy myself as an enemy of Intaki.
Would I destroy enemies of the State? Should they also be my enemies, yes.

Let us get to the meat of this claim you make though.

Heth is currently on a KK owned station.
Heth is an outlaw in all KK territories.
Outlaws do not have 'citizen' standing in the State.

Therefore, as an outlaw, Heth is an enemy of the State, and not a citizen.
You protect him, therefore YOU are declaring yourself an enemy of the State.

You should probably get round to that whole 'destroying yourself' thing.

Oh, and for the last time. I am INTAKI. That means I'm from Intaki, not Luminaire.
I am an ethnic Intaki, none of my ancestors are Gallentean.

If you're going to attempt to insult me, at least get the wording of your insults right. Otherwise you just prove to the wider community that you lack the intellectual capacity for debate, reason or self-critical examination and personal growth.

-Tertianus Rethelior ('Rok)

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#33 - 2013-06-17 11:23:23 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Davanev Ice-Eyes wrote:
Anyone who enabled [this outcome] to happen and whines about it now is a hypocrite.


Doubly so when you consider the fate of Anvent Eturrer.


People keep bringing this up all the time to compare with the current events and make a cheap-shot argument that, because the Federation burned a national traitor on stage once, any complaints about ANY OTHER CASE EVER is null and void.

I have pointed it out once before that there are vastly different circumstances surrounding these two cases and vastly different crimes to account for, but people keep making this comparison, and this argument. I fail to see how it is in any way relevant, but before I make a post about this for a third time, perhaps you would care to elaborate on your viewpoints here?

I expect that, if anyone can inform me of this, it should be you, Verin.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#34 - 2013-06-17 11:25:00 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Fourteen life sentences sounds much like a death sentence to me.


Yes, living until old age takes you is 'much like' being shot down in the prime of your life.

Next Captain Hakatain will explain how war is peace and ignorance is strength.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#35 - 2013-06-17 11:28:32 UTC
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
Now, maybe it is because I come from a backwater planet in Solitude and do not understand the finer details of Federal law, but I do not understand the notion that the Sebiestor Tribal Court simply executed the verdict given by the Caille District Court. The verdict was 14 life sentences, what they executed was the death sentence. Maybe for some people, but in my understanding, those two a far from the same.

What was the point of the sentence of the Caille District Court if it was meant to never be followed? If the Caille District Court has the power to give the death sentence, they obviously did not believe the crime was strong enough. Alternatively, if they do not have that power, this whole story just shows how to circumvent such a restriction. Let us not forget, for all the bad things he did, Gerne Broteau was a citizen of the Federation.


In the district of Caille, the death sentence is not a customary sentence.
In place of such a sentence, Broteau was given a term of imprisonment from which he would never be released.
He was then sent to the Sebiestor, who do have, and use, the death penalty for such crimes.
He was not expected to return alive.

Those who decry a 36 hour, uninterrupted trial as 'too short' likely haven't spent 36 hours doing the same thing, it's tedious and feels much longer.

As for the speed of his execution, That could be seen as a small measure of mercy, I am sure that even the majority of prisoners in Sebiestor custody feel wronged by his actions. They gave him the mercy of a bullet, rather than the brutality of a prisoner run beatdown and lynching.

Too many are ready to point fingers and call foul over this man.
He was a mass murderer who got the punishment he so rightly deserved.

Let it go. By becomming angry and railing against one another over this, you give him exactly the legacy he was looking for.

-Tertianus Rethelior ('Rok)

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Anatole Madullier
Alexylva Paradox
#36 - 2013-06-17 11:29:05 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Fourteen life sentences sounds much like a death sentence to me.


Yes, living in confinement until old age takes you is 'much like' being shot down in the prime of your life.

Next Captain Hakatain will explain how war is peace and ignorance is strength.


Added a very important naunce there. I'd rather live till old age takes me instead of getting shot down. I guess that goes for the most of us. But if I'd have to live the rest of my life in confinement, locked away from my loved ones.

It's a personal opinion, but I'd rather take a bullet at that point.

Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#37 - 2013-06-17 11:40:37 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Davanev Ice-Eyes wrote:
Anyone who enabled [this outcome] to happen and whines about it now is a hypocrite.


Doubly so when you consider the fate of Anvent Eturrer.


People keep bringing this up all the time to compare with the current events and make a cheap-shot argument that, because the Federation burned a national traitor on stage once, any complaints about ANY OTHER CASE EVER is null and void.

I have pointed it out once before that there are vastly different circumstances surrounding these two cases and vastly different crimes to account for, but people keep making this comparison, and this argument. I fail to see how it is in any way relevant, but before I make a post about this for a third time, perhaps you would care to elaborate on your viewpoints here?

I expect that, if anyone can inform me of this, it should be you, Verin.



Personally, I had no problem with Eturrer getting charbroiled by our previous President's magic boom juice. A bit melodramatic, to be sure, but effective. He got a trial, he was found guilty, and he burned for his treason.

I also have no problem with the killer of the Light of Matar getting a slug between his eyes, either. Everyone knew what was going to happen when he was extradited, and Minmatar justice is nothing if not swift.

Sometimes the madmen need to be put down in a very final way to become an example to others. Whether it be Eturrer, Broteau, or if the Caldari end up capturing, trying, and then denying Tibus Heth the dignity of the Tea and just space his ass along with all of his cronies, just mulch their spare clone first and they're not coming back from a walk outside in hard vacuum.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Davanev Ice-Eyes
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-06-17 11:46:23 UTC
Tamonash en Welle wrote:
Now, maybe it is because I come from a backwater planet in Solitude and do not understand the finer details of Federal law, but I do not understand the notion that the Sebiestor Tribal Court simply executed the verdict given by the Caille District Court. The verdict was 14 life sentences, what they executed was the death sentence. Maybe for some people, but in my understanding, those two a far from the same.

What was the point of the sentence of the Caille District Court if it was meant to never be followed? If the Caille District Court has the power to give the death sentence, they obviously did not believe the crime was strong enough. Alternatively, if they do not have that power, this whole story just shows how to circumvent such a restriction. Let us not forget, for all the bad things he did, Gerne Broteau was a citizen of the Federation.


We can send the corpse back for you to incarcerate for the next 250 years if it would make you feel better.

On a slightly less facetious note let me put it this way - he remained in custody for the remainder of his life. Look on it that he received 14 life sentences and a death sentence, all to run concurrently, all sentences have been served fully. Image that I found you guilty of murder and theft - 3 years for the theft and 30 for the murder - consecutive sentences means 33 years total, concurrent 30.

Would you rather we kept him in jail until ten minutes before he died of natural causes then shot him ? Not only cruel but rather pointless, however that would be the closest we could get to consecutive - unless you want to go back to my original point and lock up his corpse.
Endeavour Starfleet
#39 - 2013-06-17 11:52:13 UTC
The Republic apologists love to completely ignore the fact that the Federation had permission to enter Amarr space to capture that scumbag. And yes what we did to him was barbaric and likely will never be repeated.

Compared to the Republic killing Federation military on a scale the madman could only dream of doing, Treating allied sovereignty as optional, and then when the we ATTEMPT to put it past us by extraditing the criminal in good faith you spit on our judicial system with this sham of an outcome with no opportunity for him to serve his sentence for those he killed in the Federation.

Nope the people of the Federation will not "let it go" We already spared the Republic by not going to war once. They must know that the people of the Federation are not above going to war against who we once actually were convinced as allies.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#40 - 2013-06-17 11:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Anatole Madullier wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Fourteen life sentences sounds much like a death sentence to me.


Yes, living in confinement until old age takes you is 'much like' being shot down in the prime of your life.

Next Captain Hakatain will explain how war is peace and ignorance is strength.

Added a very important naunce there. I'd rather live till old age takes me instead of getting shot down. I guess that goes for the most of us. But if I'd have to live the rest of my life in confinement, locked away from my loved ones.

It's a personal opinion, but I'd rather take a bullet at that point.

If I should ever be in a position to offer you a life sentence or a death by firing squad, I shall keep that in mind. It is a viewpoint I am sympathetic towards. My own people often preferred honorable death to imprisonment.

However, unless you have insight into Broteau's thoughts on the matter, I find this argument unpersuasive. If indeed it was meant as a defense of Captain Hakatain's words.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.