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Hacking/Relic Site Bugs

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Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#41 - 2013-06-10 09:02:26 UTC
If you move quickly on a shoddy connection, client and server hacking desync, causing players to accidentally or intentionally double move. I submitted a full bug report with details worth checking out, but its fairly serious cause you can basically double move through a firewall before it shuts down surrounding nodes. The worst part is it arises naturally, so I'm literally forced to use this exploit if I lag. No way not to.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Lexmana
#42 - 2013-06-10 09:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Haulie Berry, that's the specific reason we started looking at the rules, everyone's in cloaky frigates now to explore and it is somewhat immersion breaking when something vanishes under your feet.



Yeah, I dunno. Currently, as soon as you pop a can, the actual signature vanishes from the system, which I really like. At that point, someone either has to already have a warp-in to the site, or combat probe you.

Combining that with the ability to cloak indefinitely, though, basically eliminates the risk of combat probing, so then you're only in danger from someone who already has a warpin to the site.

It actually seems like a reasonably good balance to remove the sig from the system, but prevent you from hiding cloaked at the site until all danger has passed.


I disagree. Signature despawn takes away the stress of seeing core probes on dscan when you are hacking a site. I like the idea of using core probes to hunt down players. That should be an option still. And AFAIK it was with the old system (at least while clearing the rats).

Better to increase the time for a site to despawn efter warping out/cloaking. Then that could be used as a defensive strategy as long as you come back or decloak within a reasonable timeframe (lets say 5 min) and it will add some depth to the cat and mouse play for explorers.
CCP Bayesian
#43 - 2013-06-10 10:30:17 UTC
Garresh wrote:
If you move quickly on a shoddy connection, client and server hacking desync, causing players to accidentally or intentionally double move. I submitted a full bug report with details worth checking out, but its fairly serious cause you can basically double move through a firewall before it shuts down surrounding nodes. The worst part is it arises naturally, so I'm literally forced to use this exploit if I lag. No way not to.


Thanks this sounds interesting, all the data is manipulated on the server for each move attempt it gets so the move will have to have been legal to be made. It sounds like the client is not receiving one of the updates and so the board state looks wrong (and like you've jumped through a node). I'll take a deeper look into this today.

The previous defect mentioned by a few people was caused by a fix we put in to stop the hacking eating all the memory on a server and killing nodes. We successfully fixed that but introduced the problem seen where things didn't update until after a few clicks. It's highly possible that both of these problems are different occurrences of the same issue.

Either way I should have a good fix for it today and it'll be updated in the build tomorrow.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Martin Gregor
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-06-10 10:50:52 UTC
One idea about the despawning sites when you cloak - it was made to stop people to cloak camp in sites all day long, as the sites didnt despawn.
Why not just make the current timer a little longer? Lets say they despawn 15 min after you cloaked, not after 2.
So nobody can camp the site or block its despawn, but its possible to cloak your ship from enemies in local for a few minutes. So the site isnt lost every time an enemy shows up (mostly they are just traveling through the system).
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-06-10 10:53:04 UTC
Martin Gregor wrote:
One idea about the despawning sites when you cloak - it was made to stop people to cloak camp in sites all day long, as the sites didnt despawn.
Why not just make the current timer a little longer? Lets say they despawn 15 min after you cloaked, not after 2.
So nobody can camp the site or block its despawn, but its possible to cloak your ship from enemies in local for a few minutes. So the site isnt lost every time an enemy shows up (mostly they are just traveling through the system).


Why do you want to completely remove the risk from data-/relicsites?
Paul Uter
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-06-10 11:08:44 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:


Why do you want to completely remove the risk from data-/relicsites?


You can not remove things that dont exist ...
Bedenea Nethan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-06-10 11:27:06 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Noriko Mai, hmm, that's very weird then. Thanks for bringing it to our attention! Is the problem intermittent (it comes and goes) or all the time? In one system or all systems?

I've had this problem aswell, the ui freezes and when it wakes up again it does multiple clicks. Annoying when you hit a defensive node and you attack it by mistake
CCP Bayesian
#48 - 2013-06-10 11:55:06 UTC
I've checked in a fix for this that should make tomorrows patch. :)

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Remy Duchateau
Milligan Interstellar Industry and Trade Co.
#49 - 2013-06-10 11:56:51 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Noriko Mai, this isn't something I've seen myself on TQ and I'm not in work (as it's the weekend) so haven't had a chance to investigate further. Is everything else responding quickly, no TiDi in operation or anything like that?

No TiDi. I did exploration in null and was the only one in the system. While hacking ONLY the hacking UI stops responding. I clicked on other "nodes" or "knots" (dunno how to name it) and then after a while the UI performed about 2-7 clicks simultaneously. Everything else is responding quickly as usual.

Also thank you for posting on weekend. Better stop and go out, drink a beer. Big smile Have a nice weekend.


Had the same issue. Can be quite annoying sometimes!
Martin Gregor
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-06-10 12:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Martin Gregor
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Martin Gregor wrote:
One idea about the despawning sites when you cloak - it was made to stop people to cloak camp in sites all day long, as the sites didnt despawn.
Why not just make the current timer a little longer? Lets say they despawn 15 min after you cloaked, not after 2.
So nobody can camp the site or block its despawn, but its possible to cloak your ship from enemies in local for a few minutes. So the site isnt lost every time an enemy shows up (mostly they are just traveling through the system).


Why do you want to completely remove the risk from data-/relicsites?


I dont want to remove any risk, nor did i mention the data or relic sites.
Fact is, there is almost no risk because you can cloak whenever you want - except for combat sites, you have to warp out and cloak or warp back and then cloak. But you cant do it, the site despawns. If you have a non-targeted friend inside who cloaks, the site depawns too.
This is very annoying when you kill the rats for 30-40 mins and have to cloak in or just before the final room.
You should be able to warp out and direct back without despawning the whole thing in a few seconds
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-06-10 13:07:45 UTC
Martin Gregor wrote:
I dont want to remove any risk, nor did i mention the data or relic sites.
Fact is, there is almost no risk because you can cloak whenever you want - except for combat sites, you have to warp out and cloak or warp back and then cloak. But you cant do it, the site despawns. If you have a non-targeted friend inside who cloaks, the site depawns too.
This is very annoying when you kill the rats for 30-40 mins and have to cloak in or just before the final room.
You should be able to warp out and direct back without despawning the whole thing in a few seconds


That would take away the risk of being jumped in the site. Currently you have to decide: Risk staying inside, thus getting the reward. Or don't take the risk and warp out, losing out on the reward. Under your plan, you could take no risk and still get the reward. That doesn't fit well in the risk/reward scheme.
Ember Aizure
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-06-17 04:52:41 UTC
Ive had problems trying to turn in a hacking mission. I achieve objectives and hack/loot but the agent still says I need to complete. Is this a known bug?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-06-17 06:23:29 UTC
Ivana Boom-Boom wrote:
2. Sites disappear too fast.


This seems to be a hi/low-sec problem, in null sites don't seem disappear before all cans have been hacked.

The downside to this is that site some site remain active with 1 cans remaining, and you need to go through all the cans to find the one that can still be hacked.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#54 - 2013-06-17 06:39:22 UTC
dexington wrote:
Ivana Boom-Boom wrote:
2. Sites disappear too fast.


This seems to be a hi/low-sec problem, in null sites don't seem disappear before all cans have been hacked.

The downside to this is that site some site remain active with 1 cans remaining, and you need to go through all the cans to find the one that can still be hacked.


OR, you can fit a cargo scanner to your ship and scan all cans when you warp into a site....


Idea
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-06-17 06:49:42 UTC
Mr. Orange wrote:
dexington wrote:
Ivana Boom-Boom wrote:
2. Sites disappear too fast.


This seems to be a hi/low-sec problem, in null sites don't seem disappear before all cans have been hacked.

The downside to this is that site some site remain active with 1 cans remaining, and you need to go through all the cans to find the one that can still be hacked.


OR, you can fit a cargo scanner to your ship and scan all cans when you warp into a site....


You sneaky devil!, thanks for the tip :)

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
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